Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 13 of 13

Thread: Uninterrupted fuel supply in high bank angle and negative G

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,342
    If I can hijack this thread for a moment, one of our more colorful aerobatic competitors had the comments below, posted on another forum, about learning to fly lots of negative G...


    "(re: negative G)
    "the key was to relax"
    Correct. When you start doing aerobatics, the first thing you learn is to tense up before you do a maneuver, to keep the blood up to your brain.

    That's good for pulling on the stick, but really bad for pushing on the stick. If you grunt before a push, you're really going to pressurize your poor skull with blood.

    You want to set up the cockpit so that you can totally relax before a push, to keep your blood pressure as low as possible. The little jets that I fly, for example, have very nice stirrups to keep your feet on the rudder pedals under negative G. And you want your lap belt insanely tight, and your shoulder harnesses reasonably tight.

    Tiny details, like your sunglasses and mike boom moving around under -ve G, need to be addressed. Your headset must be tethered in some manner. I like the perrone mesh "snoopy" helmets, but some people use chin straps. Heck, a line of duct tape will even do it!

    Positive G is great fun. It's sort of like lifting weights. Once you get onto the "grunt", you can rapidly increase the +ve G that you pull: 2, then 4, then 6, then 8, then 10. A guy I know pulls +11 and pushes -7 on every flight. He's broken every part of his Pitts, and reinforced it.

    Negative G is really strange. You must build the -ve G very slowly, to avoid really screwing yourself up. Your blood pressure soars to insane levels, so if you have any kind of flaw in your brain - aneurism, etc - you will find it right away. If I overdo it, I blow blood vessels in the skin on my face, esp underneath my eyes. Looks really weird. But the real danger of ramping up the -ve G too fast is tearing up your inner ear - the wobblies. No one knows much about them, because the western military doesn't do -ve G, and the civilians that get the wobblies don't want to talk about it, and have their medicals pulled.

    Start with -1G. Roll upside down, a 2 pt roll, and stay there for a bit. Try to figure out - attitudes and movements - which pitch attitude you need to maintain altitude. Common error is to not push -1G and to lose altitude. A little bit of nose down trim can help reduce the stick push force. Obviously this is speed and aircraft type (flat bottom wing?) dependent.

    Ok, so try to fly straight and level inverted for 10 seconds, then 20 seconds, then 30 seconds, hesitating during that 2 pt roll. Obviously you need to worry about aircraft systems limitations. Not all aircraft can tolerate indefinite -ve G.

    You're going to get disoriented upside down. You are going to get lost. Seriously. Best thing you can do, is after taking off, is roll inverted and navigate to the practice area and back again. It's like learning to fly all over again.

    Some level inverted turns are a good idea. Start with 30, then 45, then 60 degree inverted turns. Remember to co-ordinate with OPPOSITE rudder. It is really easy to slip/skip inverted turns. Some people install inverted balls (inclinometers). Watch the altitude! It is really easy to spiral dive out of inverted steep turns. 60 degree inverted turns is -2G, which is getting better. You want to start with -1G, then -1.5G, then -2G, then -2.5G, then -3G, etc. If you go right to -6G you are NOT going to be a happy puppy.

    Another exercise, once you can fly inverted, is to push to 45 up, hold it for a moment, then level off inverted again at a higher altitude and slower airspeed. Pause, then let the nose drop to a 45 downline and push level again. This is really excellent practice.

    One very simple maneuver I like is max airspeed at the surface, and pull for an inside 1/2 cuban-8. But instead of 1/2 rolling upright from the resulting inverted 45 downline, push to level inverted. Or, keep pushing to a 45 inverted upline, and do a nice 1 1/2 roll to the upright 45. Once you have mastered the inverted pushes to 45, time to take the next step to the outside 1/2 cuban-8. Dive for some airspeed. 1/2 roll inverted, and push through the vertical - lots of right rudder required, esp with a metal prop - to the 45 upright downline. Call it quits there.

    Practice until you've got it nailed, no spiralling. If anything goes wrong, you are going up with decreasing airspeed which is good for the Vg diagram - you will "fall upwards" into some sort of snap or spin which is generally quite fun. Once you master the outside 1/2 cu-8, time to continue the push for the complete outside loop, which is interesting because your altitude is going away fast, the airspeed is increasing, and the negative G is building up fast. This is a much more dangerous maneuver than the outside 1/2 cu-8, and care must be taken with the top gate - is the altitude at least the minimum, and is the airspeed down below the maximum?

    Not many people master the outside loop. If you do, you are in a pretty elite group of masochistic pilots!"

  2. #12
    steveinindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,449
    The only situations where I am aware that we see "red out" are in ground based centrifuges.
    I have only experienced it during a ride in a military aircraft (a reward for helping their wing commander out....long story) and a centrifuge when I was a biomedical test subject. However, from what I have been told by a couple of the unlimited aerobatic guys I have talked to that you can easily red out at -4 or -5 G, lower if you aren't in good shape. There are few things in flying that actually frighten me but rapid onset of high levels of negative G is among them. Somewhere exists footage of me screaming (because of how much it made my head hurt) and then blacking out in the centrifuge.

    Negative G is really strange. You must build the -ve G very slowly, to avoid really screwing yourself up. Your blood pressure soars to insane levels, so if you have any kind of flaw in your brain - aneurism, etc - you will find it right away. But the real danger of ramping up the -ve G too fast is tearing up your inner ear - the wobblies. No one knows much about them, because the western military doesn't do -ve G, and the civilians that get the wobblies don't want to talk about it, and have their medicals pulled.
    That was what I was talking about. I just don't have that much first hand experience (twice as I mentioned) with it because I don't enjoy aerobatics that much outside of limited stuff for proficiency in upset recovery. Thank you for the insight you provided. I would love to ride with you sometime.

    If I overdo it, I blow blood vessels in the skin on my face, esp underneath my eyes. Looks really weird.
    Petechial hemorrhages or just petechiae....the same thing happens in extreme impacts (the crushing/compression of the abdomen and chest is the usual mechanism) and in people who are strangled. It is definitely odd-looking.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  3. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,342
    I will encourage anyone who is interested in experiencing negative G in an aircraft that can safely fly that way to contact their local EAA/IAC chapter and offer to buy some gas. My chapter gets those sorts of requests and the pilots are very happy to share their experience and their sport.

    The IAC web site can be found off the EAA web site, or at www.iac.org. Look under the Programs topic for the Chapter Locator. For example, In Indiana, IAC Chapter 124 is in Kokomo, and the chapter president is Michael Wild. His telephone number is listed on the web page.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •