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Thread: TIG Welding Machines (what am I looking for?)

  1. #11

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    Thanks everyone for their responses. Firstly, I intend to weld more than 4130, the double eagle is to stop the bleeding ($140/hr to rent LSA) so I can spend my money on what I truly want, a vastly more complex aircraft. The usage of TIG isn't in question, the starter machine is. I was looking at the Lincoln Electric Invertec V155-S which Lincoln points very specifically to the small aircraft builder like myself. Now, am I getting myself a machine that is going to take the load I present to it when building aircraft or is it a cheap machine that will not provide me with good welds? Will it grow with me or become an expensive toy? I don't have the money to throw away. If I buy this its something I want to live with for 15 or 20 years and MANY airplanes, right?
    Last edited by subnoize; 10-24-2012 at 06:03 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes

  2. #12

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    Sub, perhaps you can try out oxy/acetylene welding as well as TIG welding before you invest any money and decide which one fits your needs the best.

    I stand by my earlier selection if you decide to buy a TIG machine. You won't outgrow it.

    If I were building a steel tube fuselage airplane, I'd gas weld it but that's just me.

  3. #13
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    Thanks everyone for their responses. Firstly, I intend to weld more than 4130, the double eagle is to stop the bleeding ($140/hr to rent LSA) so I can spend my money on what I truly want, a vastly more complex aircraft. The usage of TIG isn't in question, the starter machine is. I was looking at the Lincoln Electric Invertec V155-S which Lincoln points very specifically to the small aircraft builder like myself. Now, am I getting myself a machine that is going to take the load I present to it when building aircraft or is it a cheap machine that will not provide me with good welds? Will it grow with me or become an expensive toy? I don't have the money to throw away. If I buy this its something I want to live with for 15 or 20 years and MANY airplanes, right?
    Sub,
    The point some of us are trying to make to you is that if you are going to be looking at your budget so closely, be sure that you include some method of performing PWHT should you choose the Tig method. The machine itself really bares little on the finished weld, afterall its just a DC power supply and just as quality of a job can be had with either a $10K Tig machine, or a series of batteries. Although one comes in a shiny blue or red box box and tends to impress the uneducated. Since I prefer Miller over Lincoln (lincolns little tigs are italian) lets look at some realistic pricing. Keep in mind that you will probably want a fingertip control, so be sure to figure that in.

    Miller Diversion 180 $1800
    Mid Grade Auto Dark Helmet $150
    Argon Cyl $125
    Total $2075
    *Note this does not include a way to perform PWHT

    Now what does a Gas setup cost?
    Handle $110
    3 tips $65
    Hose $15
    Regs $87
    Goggles $20
    Tanks $250
    Total about $550 (Add $80 for aluminum welding)

    So in short, if you want to equip your shop for safe Tig welding, figure on about $2500. Also please bear in mind that this is coming from someone that Tig welds regularly in their field of work, owns two of the best inverter machines for their home shop. So I will be blunt, I think its foolish and naive to jump into Tig for homebuilding without first having mastered, and having a shop equipped with, a good O/A setup. As a side note I am curious why you are set on the Tig process?



    P.S. As far as lifespan of the machine, 15-20 years is probably pushing it for inverters. Honestly they can and do fail, and when they do repairs are easily in the $700-1200 range or more if the boards are even in production anymore. People do have them last longer, and others die sooner. Lack of use will kill them faster than heavy use. On the flip side my oldest welding torch is from 1909 and still going strong.
    Last edited by Aaron Novak; 10-24-2012 at 10:27 PM.

  4. #14

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    Hmmm, ok this is what I was looking for when I first posed the question!

    I'm not sold on a brand or even a process, I have goals and now I better understand how to achieve them. To be honest, welding is something I really don't want to learn but I'm hobbled by not knowing it. It severely limits my choice of aircraft designs and tasks I can accomplish myself in my own shop. I can rent a gas torch and bottles for about $60 a week on the high end and as you pointed out Aaron, to buy it isn't all that much money. In the end I may just do what the designer did and go gas, it sounds easier.

    Here is the fun part, if I pick up that little Lincoln from Aircraft Spruce AND a gas set up I'm just about at $2,100.00. If I drive down to Peachtree City, GA I can knock it down to about $2,000.

    I may buy both, and have the best of both worlds, right? Check it out for yourself;

    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...clickkey=13604
    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...clickkey=12326

    (I am aware I'm missing the gas regulators and bottles for both but I'm looking to get the major equipment first)

    Lastly, I'm sure when I enroll into an EAA welding class the specifics of what I'm doing with the equipment will be properly explained. Like building the actual aircraft, I wont be learning to weld in a vacuum!
    Last edited by subnoize; 10-25-2012 at 06:11 AM. Reason: accuracy

  5. #15
    Mike Switzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    I can rent a gas torch and bottles for about $60 a week on the high end
    Yikes, that is high. My tank rental is $36 per year for each tank. I probably don't have more than $250 in my torch, tips, & regulators (but then I bought most of it back in the early 90s)

  6. #16
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    To be honest, welding is something I really don't want to learn but I'm hobbled by not knowing it.
    Lastly, I'm sure when I enroll into an EAA welding class the specifics of what I'm doing with the equipment will be properly explained. Like building the actual aircraft, I wont be learning to weld in a vacuum!
    This is an attitude that you would be wise to work on changing. Welding is a very practice and focus intensive skill to learn, much more so than painting, riveting, covering and the like. Having the mindset of "having" to learn something to get to a goal will just lead to frustration. The EAA classes give you the fundamentals, however when you leave them you wont be ready to start welding up a flight structure, it will take many hours of practice for this. The technical aspects of welding and fuselage construction are covered in EAA welding manual very well, and also covered in the new FAA A&P handbooks. Those would be my first two "go to" sources. I encourage you to go through with this though, it is a very rewarding skill to have learned and something you can be very proud of. On the equipment you have listed, both are probably your last choice. The 155 is a lift arc only, and you really (REALLY) should have hi-frequency start. The Henrob is more suited for sheet metal work, and is an awkward, clumsy torch for tubing clusters. I would go with the Smith Airline (Aw1A) handle, tips, and such from Aircraft Spruce for a gas setup. For the Tig, a DC only machine is pretty pointless as it have less capability than a simple torch ( cant weld aluminum with a DC tig, but you can with a torch ). So If you are going to spend the money, and AC/DC machine with high frequency start would be your best bet.
    Last edited by Aaron Novak; 10-25-2012 at 07:27 AM.

  7. #17
    CarlOrton's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say "Thanks!" for this thread. I didn't start following it until just a few days ago because a) my plane is finished and b) I normally don't have anything to weld, but c) welding is a skill that I've always kinda wanted to learn back in the bucket list category of things.

    The contributions to this thread from Aaron and others have been clear, concise, and loaded with excellent newbie guidance that doesn't have a single syllable of condescention. VERY good information. Thanks again;......

    Carl Orton
    Sonex #1170 / Zenith 750 Cruzer
    http://mykitlog.com/corton

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Switzer View Post
    Yikes, that is high. My tank rental is $36 per year for each tank. I probably don't have more than $250 in my torch, tips, & regulators (but then I bought most of it back in the early 90s)
    Well, that was on the high end and I called the place and was like Mr. Noob himself so I was fully aware they were trying to take me for all they could. I think I will probably go with the little Lincoln TIG and a gas torch and start taking EAA classes. That way I can practice until I get good enough to complete the task (build the Double Eagle), which ever way is the best. Since I will have both I can then make a better choice about how to proceed based on my own skill level.

    snz

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    Having the mindset of "having" to learn something to get to a goal will just lead to frustration
    With all due respect but if that was true I would not be where I am today, professionally that is. I sweat for 99% of what I do so I can get to the 1% I really enjoy. I believe they call that "Life" if I'm not mistaken.

  10. #20
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Sub,
    I would agree more with you on this if I didnt help teach more than a couple people these skills. I say this because what you will find is that the act of welding is more of an art than a science. I think you will see what I mean when you get to it. Good Luck!!

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