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  1. #1

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    Buried Spitfires Update

    For the last year we have been hearing stories about real Spitfires buried in Burma by the RAF. It grabbed a lot of attention but nothing has come of it, at least not yet.
    I have been pretty dubious of the whole thing.

    Now the news media has a story that the govt of Myanmar, (used to be Burma), has signed a contract to dig up these planes. The head of the country and the Britiish Prime Minister, David Cameron had talks leading to this.

    So maybe it will really happen, who knows if there is anything down there?

    If the Spits were preserved and buried in crates by the RAF, I expect they would be in good condition, not destroyed by time or moisture like many suppose.

    I wish the P M would get Rolls Royce to reopen a Merlin production line, some new ones of those would be very welcome. might be a little pricey though.

    So what do you guys think? is this a pie in the sky story or are there really some whole planes down there?
    How long before Tighar organizes a tour to observe the digging?
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 10-19-2012 at 11:10 AM.

  2. #2
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Back when I was a teenager, I had a 1946 Willys Jeep (immediate postwar civilian model, very similar to the WWII Jeep). When it came time to sell it, EVERYbody knew there was a guy in town who had dug up some left-over WWII models, and that the price I was asking ($600) was ridiculously high.

    Well...them WWII Jeeps never did appear. I got my $600, and spent another $200 for a delux 1951 model.

    I keep remembering this, with all the stories about buried Spitfires. They aren't in Greenland... The soil in SEA is warm, moist, and with a lot of organics in it. I question whether '40s technology could have protected the airplanes for 65 years. Especially when no one KNEW they'd have to be protected that long. I suspect the planes were prepared for ordinary shipping, only.

    No doubt like "Glacier Girl," they'll be able to assemble a flying aircraft. But I'm betting they'll be brand-new aluminum

    (Me 'n my replacement Jeep, a '51 model: http://www.wanttaja.com/jeep.jpg. I'm about 18 years old, here....)

    Ron Wanttaja

  3. #3
    It's really hard to guess at the condition of these planes. IF they were shipped like some of the planes had been shipped to North Africa, Australia, and even England early in the war, they might have been coated in Cosmoline. Cosmoline is a very greasy, waxy oily substance that prevents rust. Over the years, we have received some donated items here at the AirVenture Museum that were coated in Cosmoline and still looked like new. That being said, if the integrity of the crates has been lost, then chances are the Cosmoline would have dried out, leaving a very wax-like substance covering the planes, which still could offer some protection. Who knows if any of these planes were actually coated in Cosmoline or had any other protection beyond the wooden crates?

    It shall be interesting to follow this story and see what turns up!

    Zack

  4. #4
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack Baughman View Post
    It's really hard to guess at the condition of these planes. IF they were shipped like some of the planes had been shipped to North Africa, Australia, and even England early in the war, they might have been coated in Cosmoline. Cosmoline is a very greasy, waxy oily substance that prevents rust. Over the years, we have received some donated items here at the AirVenture Museum that were coated in Cosmoline and still looked like new. That being said, if the integrity of the crates has been lost, then chances are the Cosmoline would have dried out, leaving a very wax-like substance covering the planes, which still could offer some protection. Who knows if any of these planes were actually coated in Cosmoline or had any other protection beyond the wooden crates?
    The story I read in the newspaper today said they were buried to hide them from the Japanese. If so, it was probably hurried with minimal protection.

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #5

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    There would be no logic in burying planes unless they were at least in some way protected and/or preserved. If you just wanted to keep them out of Japanese use, they could have just burned or crushed them.
    If instead you wanted to dig them up later, you'd do some sort of case or protection.

    My question is not so much of the condition, but whether there is any truth to the story of them beeing there at all.

  6. #6

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    Google "Buried Spitfires Burma". The news articles from 2 days ago has quotes from the British Government. The article I saw also mentioned the British PM signed an agreement in April with the Burmese president that was needed to get the excavation going. There is also a spokesperson from Downing Street being quoted.

    If the story is a fabrication, he's got the office of the British PM fooled.

  7. #7
    danielfindling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack Baughman View Post
    It's really hard to guess at the condition of these planes. IF they were shipped like some of the planes had been shipped to North Africa, Australia, and even England early in the war, they might have been coated in Cosmoline. Cosmoline is a very greasy, waxy oily substance that prevents rust. Over the years, we have received some donated items here at the AirVenture Museum that were coated in Cosmoline and still looked like new. That being said, if the integrity of the crates has been lost, then chances are the Cosmoline would have dried out, leaving a very wax-like substance covering the planes, which still could offer some protection. Who knows if any of these planes were actually coated in Cosmoline or had any other protection beyond the wooden crates?

    It shall be interesting to follow this story and see what turns up!

    Zack
    My hunch is that they will dig up aircraft pieces of little salvageable value. How many times has a "time capsule" been dug up with a new car, precious papers etc. supposedly perfectly preserved - - only to find a pile of rust and dust?

    Every once in a while though . . .

    As an aside this is an example of a perfectly preserved boat full size buried for 3500 years. (Ok a pharaoh was involved)

    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestor...atpyramid5.htm

  8. #8

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    I find it hard to believe that any crate would survive having all that dirt piled on it. It isn't like they were put in a tunnel that was mostly self supporting. My guess is that they were crushed the minute they were buried, or shortly thereafter. That's tens of thousands of pounds of dirt on those packing crates. Even steel sea containers can't withstand forces like that. It would take some very specially designed crates indeed with supporting members as heavy as railroad ties.

    Furthermore, you can't dip an entire spitfire in cosmolene to get it into every nook and cranny inside and outside. Even if the outside of the skin were to be coated, moisture could get inside and corrode it from the inside out.

    This all assumes they are even there of course. Supposedly they have taken core samples and put cameras down the holes and found aluminum. I sure hope this all comes to a successful conclusion. Maybe when that many are dumped on the market I will even be able to afford one!

  9. #9

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    bdk, you say a crate would not survive "having all that dirt piled on it". We don't know how much dirt, if any was put on these crates, if they were in fact buried there. You are correct that dirt is heavy, but there is no reason that these crated would be buried deeply. A wooden coffin can and has survived intact when it is only a few feet below the surface.

    I have an RAF style crate for a Merlin engine, and it is fairly substantial, though I have never tried burying it. I am almost certain it could take 2 feet of earth on it.

    I have a lot of doubts if there were ever any planes buried in crates in cosmoline, but if there were, I'd bet there is much, if not most preserved. I'd buy one on that basis if the price is right.

    The story of the "core samples" sounds dubious. If you really thought that there was a crate with a factory complete Spitfire down there, would you risk drilling a hole right through the middle of it? I wouldn't, I would carefully dig down to find what was there.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 10-26-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  10. #10

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    My mind doubts that there really are complete Spitfires down there.

    But my heart tells me that I hope they are. I don't know David Cundall, but have a friend who vouches for him. I do know Peter Arnold, and if he says they are there it is good enough for me.
    I wish I could be over there for the next week or so.
    Good luck to all.

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