Where are all the young pilots?

[Rootski]

Does anyone else read Flying Magazine? Martha Luken's article this month touched on the problem the declining interest in GA, specifically citing airport closures and the decline in student pilot starts, especially among young people. Most poignantly (to me), she writes of a student pilot: "Finally, he completes the test -- and then, what?"

Exactly. I'm 24 years old and just put my first BFR on my private license. I think it's interesting that the term "catch-22" has its roots in aviation, because that's exactly where one exists now. The cost of flying is exorbitant, and the best way to lower my costs would be, after crunching my numbers, to buy an experimental, and share the costs with a partner. This, for a new pilot, can't reasonably be done - almost every financier and insurer wants almost triple the hours I have. Renting might be viable, even comparable to the cost of payments and operating costs, except that money is put toward hours alone, not to a tangible asset from which capital may be eventually recouped. Flying professionally requires a commercial license which requires an instrument rating which requires 30-40 additional hours at most schools to even begin - another $6000-$8000 on top of the $8000 an IFR ticket will cost me. And all of this is on top of college debt. You need a huge amount of money up front to even get to the point where you might be able to fly for cheap!

Is it any wonder that interest in flying is waning? The future predicted pilot shortage isn't due to lack of desire, but lack of means. Martha Luken mentions cost as an afterthought to her blame on iPods, video games, Facebook, the parental coddling of my generation, and the rest of the played-out "damn kids these days!" rhetoric. I don't buy it - because the cost of aviation is making it so I can't buy anything. It's the money, honey.

Focus: how does a young pilot, hungry for hours, manage to build some? And more importantly, how do we revolutionize aviation costs so it doesn't have to be like this anymore?

[hydroguy2]

go find 3-4 others...pony up $5000 each and get you a trainier. either a 150 or cherokee 140, etc. Do your training in it, fly it around the country, build your time. Then sell out your share to a new guy. sharing expenses with others is a economical way to log some hours and build experience.

[malexander]

Does anyone else read Flying Magazine? Martha Luken's article this month touched on the problem the declining interest in GA, specifically citing airport closures and the decline in student pilot starts, especially among young people. Most poignantly (to me), she writes of a student pilot: "Finally, he completes the test -- and then, what?"

Exactly. I'm 24 years old and just put my first BFR on my private license. I think it's interesting that the term "catch-22" has its roots in aviation, because that's exactly where one exists now. The cost of flying is exorbitant, and the best way to lower my costs would be, after crunching my numbers, to buy an experimental, and share the costs with a partner. This, for a new pilot, can't reasonably be done - almost every financier and insurer wants almost triple the hours I have. Renting might be viable, even comparable to the cost of payments and operating costs, except that money is put toward hours alone, not to a tangible asset from which capital may be eventually recouped. Flying professionally requires a commercial license which requires an instrument rating which requires 30-40 additional hours at most schools to even begin - another $6000-$8000 on top of the $8000 an IFR ticket will cost me. And all of this is on top of college debt. You need a huge amount of money up front to even get to the point where you might be able to fly for cheap!

Is it any wonder that interest in flying is waning? The future predicted pilot shortage isn't due to lack of desire, but lack of means. Martha Luken mentions cost as an afterthought to her blame on iPods, video games, Facebook, the parental coddling of my generation, and the rest of the played-out "damn kids these days!" rhetoric. I don't buy it - because the cost of aviation is making it so I can't buy anything. It's the money, honey.

Focus: how does a young pilot, hungry for hours, manage to build some? And more importantly, how do we revolutionize aviation costs so it doesn't have to be like this anymore?

100% spot on. I've been saying this for years.

[Racegunz]

Careful, (leans over and whispers) "there are others on this forum that feel if you don't have the means, then you don't belong in the aviator's community"
You know after WWII the number of pilots was huge and planes were still expensive, but alot were sold to working class ex-military pilots. What's the difference now? you may ask. The regs, the insurance drama, and the endless line of people all sticking their hand in your pocket along the way that weren't there 60-70 years ago. I'm relatively new to aviation (2009) and there is no way it is going to get any better any time soon because aviators are our own worst enemy. I (working class electrician) just don't fit in to the local EAA chapters and pilots, all either wealthy business men or retired folks who worked for companies in the day that paid well.
Want my advice? buy an unfinished (but well documented...very important!) project and build your own, be self insured (that's called assuming responsibility) and fly the heck out of it and have a blast!

[kmacht]

So why are there only old folks hanging out at the airport and very few younger people. It is a simple matter of time vs money.

The 20's: Either during college or maybe even right before you have all sorts of free time but very little money. Paying for school, books, beer, girls, etc tends to take up what little money you might be making working for minimum wage. Some are able to scrape up enough to get their license but then learn that once you have it you are still paying $100+ an hour just to go bounce around the pattern ever few weekends and loose interest.

The 30s: You are in your first real job out of college and finally making some money. Unforturnatly you are now getting married, buying a house, and having kids. When you get some free time you rarely have the money to go flying and when you are able to save up some money you are suddenly hit with a home repair, doctors visit for your kid, or some other unexpected expense. If you are lucky you aren't up to your eyeballs in college debet.

The 40s: Your kid is getting older and more self sufficient. You are also starting to make better money at your job. Unfortunatly most people are now heavily into their job trying to climb the corporate ladder spending 60+ hours a week working. The little free time you do have on the weekends is usually spent at kids soccer games, working on the house, etc. Your bank account is growing but there is no time to go spend it on flying.

The 50's: That kid you had back in your 30's is now ready for college. Things are probably slowing down for you career wise as you reach a comfortable level and can start envisioning retirement. You have lots of free time now but all that money you saved is suddenly paying for a $30,000 a year college tutition and anything else left over is going towards retirement.

The 60's: Your kid has graduated and is living on their own, you have a small wad of cash saved and you are retired. You can finally afford to buy a small plane and spend the days at the airport. It has only taken 40 years to get there.

The 70's: Unfortuantly you just failed your medical and are now relegated to hanging around the airport hoping to get a ride with someone just like back in your 20's.



Keith

[Hangar10]

Want my advice? buy an unfinished (but well documented...very important!) project and build your own, be self insured (that's called assuming responsibility) and fly the heck out of it and have a blast!

I agree... build your own... even if you start from scratch. That is what I am doing. I got my ticket at age 33 (now 40) and went through the same scenario you are talking about a few years back. My wife and I discussed the options, and while we could probably afford to purchase a Cherokee, the insurance and operating expenses would pretty much consume all of our entertainment budget. The only option I could come up with that wouldn't destroy the family budget (or patience) would be to build something. Will I get to fly right now! Well, yes and no. While my project is a long way from being airworthy, I have met a bunch of great people, and I occasionally get offered a ride to breakfast or a fly in. I am having a ball building my own airplane while learning about the people in my community, our chapter and a whole BUNCH of new skills.

Now before you say, "yeah, but a new RV or Zenith could cost $100k!" ... keep in mind that there are a LOT of options that can't always be found in the magazines. For example, I am building a Pietenpol Air Camper... not your thing? Ok, maybe a Wittman Tailwind, or Buttercup, a Fokker D-7, a Hatz biplane, a Parakeet, a Super Ace, or an EAA Bipe, or... well, you get the idea... there are a LOT of options, and many outperform those factory offerings that cost you $100+/hr.

You mention that it is "the money, honey", and you also suggest that all the "damn kids these days" comments is a bunch of rhetoric. While I don't totally disagree with you, I can also see a lot of the instant gratification mentality even among my age group. It blows most people's minds that I would consider a project that might take me 5 or 6 years, or longer. I guess some of us aren't so short sighted. Honestly, many of them are taking notice as my pile of wood starts to look like an airplane, but still, many insist that they just couldn't do it. Well, ok... so they obviously weren't meant to fly either. Perhaps PC solitare is more their speed. My point is, that one way or another it is going to cost you something to fly, whether it be time, money or both (one in the same to me)... just like it would cost you something to be involved with shooting sports, amateur radio, remote control hobbies, bass fishing rig, you name it... big boy toys aren't cheap, but they can be affordable. The building approach (if you have the patience) not only offers you a much better understanding of the craft you plan to pilot, but it also allows you to start/stop as your budget dictates. You would be surprised how much entertainment (and education) your dollar will provide when you are scratch building. Not only that, but the old timers apparently love to help out the younger builders (parts, suggestions, material, etc.)... especially once they see progress being made (i.e. not just talking about it at Saturday coffee... actually making sparks and sawdust).

Perhaps I'm veering all over the place here... my main point is, embrace the spirit of our hobby. Do you think that all of those guys back in the 50s and 60s were buying Cubs, Champs, 150s, etc.? Indeed, some were... just as there are some doing the same today, but take a look at all the homebuilding that was going on during those years. Honestly, with the economy the way it is, I hope that more people will consider homebuilding rather than walk away from our hobby. Speaking of camaraderie, not only will you find it at your local airport or EAA chapter, but if you choose to build, you will likely find a friendly and knowledgeable support group (type group) online. Not only will they become your friends, but they know your project better than anyone else and can help you through any tough spots.

Just an option... one that many choose to pursue rather than fret over the fact that they can't fly three hours a week in the local rental. Let's just say you flew once a week in a $100 rental... that’s $5200/yr. A nice airplane could be built in just a few years on a budget like that, and operating costs shouldn't be anywhere close to that annual figure once you are in the air, yet you could still fly it whenever you want. Look a little further down the road and ask yourself what kind of flying you want to be doing. Do you have a desire to fly professionally? Buckle down and get busy training... now! Do you have a need to fly cross-country? I guess you better figure out a way to accommodate that. Do you just want to fly out for pancakes, go to fly ins and chase your buddies around the clouds? You could do that with a homebuilt... and then just rent that cross country machine when you need it, which in my case is never.

Oh, I also have an 8 year old son (started a little later than my 20s)... but fortunately he LOVE this stuff, and so does my wife.

I don't mean any of this to sound combattive... like I said, I've been right where you are, and I've come to the conclusion that aviation, while not cheap, is still available to everyone with a desire.

How bad do you want to fly? Just some things to consider.

[Joe LaMantia]

WELL SAID HANGER10!

You have the real spirit of EAA and that is exactly what motivated the founder in the first place. As a former Cost Analyst I will tell everyone right up front that you can't cost justify personal flying for pure fun. I justify the activity based on the value I place on it in my own life. I'm looking at 70 candles on my next birthday cake, quite a bonfire! I've been flying as a pilot for 20 years and I "budget" my time and $ so I can log a few hours each month. It get peace of mind in the "low and slow", but still haven't had 2 flight that were identical. If your young, get involved to the level you can afford and don't waste a lot of time and energy on the things you wished you could afford. If you have already acquired a license you know how great you feel in having accomplished that milestone, imagine how it would feel to fly something you spend months or years building!

Joe

[martymayes]

Focus: how does a young pilot, hungry for hours, manage to build some? And more importantly, how do we revolutionize aviation costs so it doesn't have to be like this anymore?

Rootski, I was wondering the same thing back in the '70's when I learned how to fly. While the $ numbers were smaller, flying was relatively expensive. The regulations back then were more restrictive, which made it difficult and costly to earn advanced ratings. Sure, if you fly enough, the hourly cost of owning a plane becomes less than renting. But at that point, you'll need a healthy aviation budget regardless. The tangible asset argument for owning a plane is weak as there is very little capital tied up in a small light plane. And right now, it won't go UP in value, more likely it will depreciate even more. To paraphrase the Clinton political quote "It's the operating cost stupid!"

Back then, to fly a much as I could, I rented the least expensive airplane I could find. Old, no fancy paint, interior or avionics. On another forum, a guy was complaining that all rentals at his airport are ragged out antiques. Well geez, if you want to rent a fancy new plane, rental cost goes up! For him that is not a factor so apparently, not everyone shares your concern about costs. He would rather pay more and have all the blinking lights, moving maps, etc.

The decline in pilot activity is more complicated than finances. When MS Flight Simulator first came out, I was at an aviation trade show. Kids were crowded around the "simulator" flying booth and not so many looking at the real airplanes. I think that underscores much of the problem. Why put forth all the effort required with real airplanes when you can just sit at home and simulate? Much easier, low operating costs and it provides instant gratification.

[Joe LaMantia]

Good Topic!,

Lots of interesting comments, I think hydroguy2 has a good idea. I got my license 20 years ago in a C-150 that belonged to a local club. Flying Clubs are the best way to learn and build time as well as save money. Back in 1992 I put up $3500 in equity and rented the club C-150 for around $25/hr wet. After getting the license I moved up to the club Archer and that rented for around $35/hr wet. In 2000 I moved to Ohio and got my $3500 refunded, by then I had built-up 200 hours in my log book. I flew rentals until retiring and was looking to buy a C-150 as my retirement hobby, but I found another club in 2008. We have a TriPacer and another Archer and best of all only $500 refundable insurance deposit to join. Fuel costs have risen substantially since 1992, the club Archer cost $100/hr wet in today's economy. The downside to club flying is paying the monthly "dues" which cover fixed costs, these costs are equally divided amongst the active club members whether they fly or not. My first club had about 35 members but only 12 to 15 actually flew regularly, so we were "subsidized" by the non-flying club members. If you can't afford to fly a couple of times a month then you won't be saving much over renting.

Saturday I flew our club Archer to a Young Eagles rally at the Sidney Airport (I-12). We had over a 100 kids and at least 8 aircraft flying from noon to 4:00PM, there is still interest in real flying. The kids were all smiles and full of energy...the parents very appreciative of the pilots and organizers, money is the problem and "kmacht" has laid out a good life model in this economy.

Joe

[martymayes]

I'd love to find a flying club nearby. Unfortunately, not any options within a 1/2 hr drive.