Where are all the young pilots?

[Chuck Arnold]

I'm with hydroguy2. Flying will never be "cheap." You can't live under a bridge and fly airplanes. But there are ways of driving down costs so that we mere mortals can fly, although you'll probably have to defer the dream of flying a tricked-out turbo 182 with a G1000 panel. A few years back I bought a Grumman Yankee (with the ugliest paint job on any airplane in America) for less than the cost of most new cars. Because hangars in my area go for several hundred dollars a month (when they're even available) I keep the airplane outside and shovel off snow in the winter. I asked around and found an excellent mechanic who does good, honest annuals and not total restorations like some shops. And I pay more for my car insurance than I do to insure the airplane. If funding is a challenge, I really like the idea of finding two or three or four other like-minded pilots and going in on a Cherokee 140, a Cessna 152, or similar simple trainer. It can be done. It may require trimming expenses in some other area of life, but I truly believe that for most people, flying is an attainable goal. I love owning an airplane, and I'll bet I fly a lot more often than a lot of pilots tossing money at rentals.

[malexander]

I have to agree with Chuck. If you want to fly, or any other hobby for that matter, you can find a way to afford it.
The broke folks that drink & smoke will find money for booze & cigarettes even if they don't have grocery money.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

To continue the theme...

It's about PASSION. The "fire in your belly" stuff. The energy that keeps you focused on the goal.
When others are out there dropping hundred dollar bills on a date with a totally incompatible ( but gorgeous) person you are working on your goal... the gal or guy who loves what you do will show up at places where you are. Way too many people are so hungry for companionship that they ignore their dreams and are frustrated with the relationship.
I like the outdoors - hiking, camping and such, I also have spent several decades, in hobby and profession, in sailing. I would go the Sierra Singles or join a singles sailing club. I always had a good time and finding a companion along the way was a bonus.
One area about flying - it's a commonly lonely hobby. EAA chapters are there and fill that gap for some but in general a lonely pursuit. Finding the PASSION can be a challenge..... we are social creatures.
So back to my ramble. As was noted - if you really desire something, anything that is in your ability, then you can find the way. You just need to be a bit more creative in this time and this economy.
IMHO - the declining pilot populations... too many (easy) distractions eating away at time and money. The feeling that we need to buy or do things to be "alright" with the world. Two income households just to keep up. Families - all members have completely different interests. And Finally "REALITY TV" !

[C 172 Pilot]

When I learned to fly, early 1980's; the going wage (for a great job) was $10/Hr.
A Cessna 150 was $25/Hr. wet.
A Cessna 172 was $35/Hr. wet.
My instructor wanted $5/Hr. to instruct.

Now I'm making better than twice that, but the same airplane now rents for $125 to $140 /Hr. wet.
I assume an instructor is now makng $40/Hr.?
My choices have only been to keep working (moving for the job) and buying a house.
I was out of avaition for 17 years, a lot has changed. I can say with total honesty I have less disposable income now then when I made half of what I'm making now. Somehow the value of my wages has actually gone down, even with me making more money...

I want to fly but I can't make it stretch anymore to fit!
Mike
C 172 Pilot

[hydroguy2]

I think I've posted these numbers before but couldn't find them so here goes.

In 1979, I took my first lesson at Strand Aviation In Kalispell, MT. A C-150 w/CFI was $21/hr, cheap by todays standards but I was a high school senior making $2.15/hr. I had a girl friend and a 12yr old truck, so short on cash. It took about 12hrs of work if I wanted to fly for an hour. I logged a whole 0.5hrs back then.

Fast forward 26yrs after kids and career. Jan 2005, I had the same girlfriend(ok wife now) but a 6yr old truck and I took my 2nd lesson. At the local flying club a C-150 was $36/hr wet and a CFI was $35/hr so ~$70/hr. I make enough to cover those costs and get my license.....but lets see how a high school student fares. At the same job I was doing the pay is $6.50/hr. Son of a gun looks like it'll take about 12-15 hrs of work to cover those flying costs. young people these days have the same issues of cars & friends but also have cell phones and many more easy distractions to take up their time and money.

Costs have gone up some, but percentage-wise not too far off. I still feel it's about will, to make the effort and sacrifice to learn to fly.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

http://www.youngeagles.org/programs/scholarships/

[prasmussen]

I have a Champ and a teenage daughter. We have been flying and have done some on-the-edge-of-aerobatic maneuvers. She wasn't frightened or sick, she was bored. I, on the other hand, loved it. Perhaps we have to acknowledge that flying as fast as a car drives on the freeway, a few thousand feet in the air a few miles from home just isn't that exciting for our children. And therefore not worth the investment of their time and resources. We live on an airfield and I would have given her the Champ when she turned 16 if she wanted it. Go figure.

[Old Goat]

Have you thought of Light Sport, i.e., no physical required, at least until you have more disposable income? Old Goat
************************************************** ***********************

Does anyone else read Flying Magazine? Martha Luken's article this month touched on the problem the declining interest in GA, specifically citing airport closures and the decline in student pilot starts, especially among young people. Most poignantly (to me), she writes of a student pilot: "Finally, he completes the test -- and then, what?"

Exactly. I'm 24 years old and just put my first BFR on my private license. I think it's interesting that the term "catch-22" has its roots in aviation, because that's exactly where one exists now. The cost of flying is exorbitant, and the best way to lower my costs would be, after crunching my numbers, to buy an experimental, and share the costs with a partner. This, for a new pilot, can't reasonably be done - almost every financier and insurer wants almost triple the hours I have. Renting might be viable, even comparable to the cost of payments and operating costs, except that money is put toward hours alone, not to a tangible asset from which capital may be eventually recouped. Flying professionally requires a commercial license which requires an instrument rating which requires 30-40 additional hours at most schools to even begin - another $6000-$8000 on top of the $8000 an IFR ticket will cost me. And all of this is on top of college debt. You need a huge amount of money up front to even get to the point where you might be able to fly for cheap!

Is it any wonder that interest in flying is waning? The future predicted pilot shortage isn't due to lack of desire, but lack of means. Martha Luken mentions cost as an afterthought to her blame on iPods, video games, Facebook, the parental coddling of my generation, and the rest of the played-out "damn kids these days!" rhetoric. I don't buy it - because the cost of aviation is making it so I can't buy anything. It's the money, honey.

Focus: how does a young pilot, hungry for hours, manage to build some? And more importantly, how do we revolutionize aviation costs so it doesn't have to be like this anymore?

[Treetop_Flyer]

Being an early-30-something owner/pilot, I'll throw my $0.02 in the ring here. Your question jumps around between flying as a career versus flying for fun. I think you have to settle on which you want to do first. If flying for a career, then you have to look at fight training as college tuition and an investment in your future just as any college degree is. If you're looking at flying just for fun, it's a different story. I'll address flying for fun and tell you how I got where I am.

I've always wanted to fly ever since I can remember. In high school, we had a local flight school but I never seemed to have the combination of time and money to get started. When I began college, I found out our school had an Airway Science minor and the local flight school was overseen by the university. As such...scholarships could be used for flight training. Having got a 31 on my ACT and spent the better part of my senior year of high school applying for scholarships, my education was essentially paid for by my scholarships. I applied for an additional $500 aviation scholarship offered by a local gentleman and alumnus and got it. That got me started flying. Private ground school was part of my standard 18-credit course load and I also got instrument ground, flight safety, and turbine ground out of the way as part of my credits. I had a job at the university in our mechanical testing lab and was working 10-15 hours/week during the school year and 40 hours/week in the summer. This allowed me to keep funding my flying (I think we were about $96/hour wet including instructor at the time).

Sadly, I didn't finish before I got out of school, but I had an engineering degree that landed me a good paying job at a local company. The summer of graduation I got married and bought a house. This put my flying on hold for about 4 years. In 2006, I decided to get serious about finishing up and, with the support of my wife, I got my PP-ASEL in November 2006.

We occasionally rented the next year or two, but renting just wasn't as fun and tended to be a hassle when it came to wanting to go fly "on a whim". In 2008, the economy tanked and I once again set aside flying for a couple years. Then in 2010, when things started to come back in my industry, I started looking at cost of ownership. I realized for about $13K - $16k per year, I could easily buy a decent aircraft, insure it, hangar it, keep it maintained, and go fly for 50-100 hours each year. I ran the numbers by my wife and got the OK to buy. We found a beautifully restored 1957 Piper TriPacer that we purchased and financed for 10 years.

My costs are as follows:
1) Plane Payment: $390/month
2) Insurance: $125/month
3) Hangar: $100/month
4) Runway Fees: $60/month
5) Annual: $250/month (I budget for $3K/yr just in case)
6) Fuel: $400/month (gives me roughly 8-9 hrs/month)
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Total: $1,325/month or $15,900/yr

Some key things that my wife and I have done to allow us to afford this are.

1) We both work and both have college degrees from four-year instituitions.
2) We do not, nor will we ever, have children. <---This one is huge, IMHO!!!
3) We have a modest house in the Midwest where cost of living is reasonable.
4) Our single car we own is 8 years old.
5) We don't really "go out" on the weekends as we're content to either fly or hang at home.
6) Our only other vices are LEGO and Games (Board/Video).
7) We have a written budget that we review and update each month.

Now, if you can find one or two other people to go in with you on this, then you can cut costs significantly. Even with two people you halve the payment, insurance, hangar, and annual. There is huge savings to be realized there. Additionally, you can find an aircraft cheaper than what we bought. I know of a great flying TriPacer for sale in Wisconsin that is a solid bird with a mid-time engine for around $22K. That's about half what I paid for mine. Then again...it doesn't have any of the goodies I have in mine.

Anyway, the bottom line is that it is certainly doable for the average person. The key is to truly figure out where you are spending money. Kids are a huge drain based on what my friends tell me. I guess I'm lucky that neither my wife nor I want them. I'm content to spoil my niece and take Young Eagles flying each month.

Feel free to message me if you have more questions.

- Dave -

[kmacht]

My costs are as follows:
1) Plane Payment: $390/month
2) Insurance: $125/month
3) Hangar: $100/month
4) Runway Fees: $60/month
5) Annual: $250/month (I budget for $3K/yr just in case)
6) Fuel: $400/month (gives me roughly 8-9 hrs/month)
----------------------------------------------------
Total: $1,325/month or $15,900/yr

- Dave -

While $1,325 a month sounds reasonable to you, to most people it doesn't. Around here that is a mortgage payment for a small to mid size house. If you tell someone you are paying the same to own and fly a plane as you are to own a house it doesn't sound very affordable to them.

There is no doubt that it can be done. You just have to decide where you would rather spend your money. It is just that most people don't want to give up the expensive cable package, cell phone, and eating out in order to go flying 2 to 3 hours per month.

Keith