Learning to fly Ultralights

[Buzz]

Learning to fly ultralights or how to learn to fly ultralights. This is hard to get out a message and reach out to those that need to hear it. Disagreeing about what form of training is or is not acceptable.does not help The real problem is how to reach the ears of those that want to learn.

The problem is that those that would want to learn have few ultralight training sources now. The only training is from a CFI [either Sport or non-Sport CFI] in something a lot larger, heavier and faster than a legal ultralight. And most people that think about learning to fly an ultralight don't picture themselves going to an airport, learning from a CFI and then transitioning down to an ultralight.

I have been shocked to get so many replies during my exposure to the public with my plane at hand .I get the amazed and flabbergasted replies they do not know they can. have and fly what they see .

True. Most people over-estimate the legal requirements to learn to fly an ultralight.

Even when a pilot confronts me most know nothing about the details and the requirements. What has happened ? We who want to rebuild the UL fever have a problem with more than just training.

If you get more people interested in learning to fly an ultralight, they still face the daunting task of finding training. Personally, I don't think the smaller number of people flying ultralights is because of the lack of interest. I think it's the lack of training. Finding training is too big of a hurdle for many people.

These forums don't seem to get the message out

I don't think these forums probably attract a lot of non-EAA members. So these are probably not going to add a lot to the ultralight population.

I believe what built a lot of interest in ultralight flying in the early years was the concentration of ultralight activity at some of the local airports. People would stop to watch and ask questions. Also, there was someplace for people interested in learning more to come to on a weekend morning. When the housing market went nutso in the 1990s and early 2000s and there was a lot of demand for developable land, I believe many ultralight air fields got lost to development. I know the home field of EAA UL Chapter #1 was lost in that way.

[jedi]

So what would happen if someone reversed engineered an MX and started building them? Does anyone have legal rights to the design?

Marty,
Don't have to do that. Even on this list of near experts it is amazing how little is known about Ultralights and Ultralight training. M-Squared has been building Quicksilver like aircraft and training pilots almost forever (forever in the UL world that is – Translated likely in the 80’s). I can recommend their equipment and their training as well as the stay ability/determination of the company.
M-Squared, Inc.
10050 A Hwy. 90 West St. Elmo Airport
P.O. Box 457
St. Elmo, AL 36568 251-957-1533
http://www.msquaredaircraft.com/page15a.html
Jedi

[Norman Langlois]

Buzz
I got to fly Sunday
While prepping to launch.I was approached by a lady driving in with a boat trailer. Stating how her Husband was frantically search the lake for my little plane. Well he got to see it when he came in to load up his boat and after he exclaimed he had to have one . We had discussion but after he is still left with out a recourse if he was serious How can I help propagate the U/L through these very enthusiastic inquiries. I fell I am missing an opportunity to help these people find there dream.
You are right about the scarcity of training. And the perception of the backward training VIA LSA. I was rejecting that as well.
What happened to all those USUA instructors where they actually CFI or just UL instructors and if so Why can't they come back to the table and add to the deficiency You explained how the SSM is actually less liability than dual.

[Buzz]

Marty,
Don't have to do that. Even on this list of near experts it is amazing how little is known about Ultralights and Ultralight training. M-Squared has been building Quicksilver like aircraft and training pilots almost forever (forever in the UL world that is – Translated likely in the 80’s). I can recommend their equipment and their training as well as the stay ability/determination of the company. Jedi

Marty, I can recommend Paul Mather and M-Squared, too. I've known Paul since around 1979-80 when he was working with one of the early Quicksilver dealers in Janesville WI. From there he went to work for Quicksilver and then went out on his own with M-Squared. He's a very good guy and as dedicated to the ultralight industry as anyone you'll find.

To your original question about building the MX again, if there was a market for a high dihedral, 2-axis ultralight like the MX, Paul would probably build it for the market.

As for training, anyone building and selling a Part 103 compliant ultralight [M-Squared, Quicksilver, etc.] faces the same challenge to the health of their companies. That is the general lack of easy entry into ultralight flying because of the loss of a lot of ultralight training and instructors with the ending of the exemption.

[Buzz]

You are right about the scarcity of training. And the perception of the backward training VIA LSA. I was rejecting that as well.
What happened to all those USUA instructors where they actually CFI or just UL instructors and if so Why can't they come back to the table and add to the deficiency

Anyone instructing under the dual ultralight instruction exemption needed to upgrade to a Sport Pilot-CFI. The real problem, however, is that they could not keep using their training aircraft under the Sport Pilot rule. So to continue to instruct, they would have needed to move up to a lot more expensive aircraft to instruct in.

So the loss of the exemption raised the equipment expense beyond the reach of just about everyone giving ultralight instruction. One has to charge so much for instruction to make it worthwhile compared to the economics under the exemption, many just quit instructing. I count myself in that group. I wasn't going to go out and spend that kind of money on a Sport Pilot compliant trainer. There wasn't enough money in instructing to afford it. I quit instructing rather than grandfather into the Sport Pilot-CFI, which I could have done. I think a lot of other ultralight instructors did the same thing.

You explained how the SSM is actually less liability than dual.

First, no one got into giving ultralight instruction if they were concerned about liability because there has never been viable insurance available anyway. My only reason for pointing out that there is, indeed, less exposure to an instructor when one is giving, essentially, ground instruction vs. in-flight instruction is because everyone seems to believe there would be MORE liability not being in the aircraft with the person. There is actually a lot less.

That said about liability, it's the economics [not the lower liability] that make the "crow hop/radio" instruction method with a very simple 2-axis ultralight so much more economically viable as a method of ultralight instruction since instruction exemption ended. Those simple 2-axis ultralights can be had on the used market for maybe 1/10th or less what the lowest level of instructor [Sport Pilot CFI] would need to spend on anything they can give dual in.

While the "crow hop/radio" instruction method has it's operational limitations compared to dual instruction [E.g. one needs to do all the initial instruction with lots of area and dead calm conditions], it is the only economically viable way to provide ultralight instruction today. The loss of the ultralight training exemption put the equipment economics for dual instruction beyond the reach of the vast majority of the ultralight instructors that were operating under the old dual exemption.

-Buzz

[martymayes]

Originally Posted by jedi M-Squared has been building Quicksilver like aircraft

I can recommend Paul Mather and M-Squared, too.

if there was a market for a high dihedral, 2-axis ultralight like the MX, Paul would probably build it for the market.

I am familiar with M-Squared guys. Just collecting info for now and following Buzz's comments. He references the MX often..

[Buzz]

Just collecting info for now and following Buzz's comments. He references the MX often..

When Norm started talking about ultralight training without using dual, that prompted my comments about what would be suitable as a training aircraft. The success of non-dual training depends on the student being able to stay ahead of the aircraft. That, in turn, means using an aircraft and conditions where the student is least likely to get behind it. In my experience, that's going to be something like the 2-axis MX, used with sufficient training area and the right wind conditions [calm].

I believe many of the naysayers on the non-dual method have that position because they are envisioning using a training platform that a student easily gets behind. [By student, I mean someone that hasn't done nearly the pre-flight training Norm has done. I think his situation and approach was unique, which is why he could train in what he built.] I know that non-dual instruction can be given in an MX with a very high rate of success. I can't speak for any other ultralight as a training platform.

-Buzz

[martymayes]

Buzz, if I get an ultralight I've already decided I'm going to train myself how to fly it. And post the results here.....daily. lol

[Buzz]

Buzz, if I get an ultralight I've already decided I'm going to train myself how to fly it. And post the results here.....daily. lol

Thanks Marty. Just what we needed to hear. Now Norm and I will be accused of trying to promote self-teaching!! LOL.

Remember that if you kill yourself trying to teach yourself to fly an ultralight, you will be banned from posting here any longer. It's in the EAA forum rules.

-Buzz

[malexander]

Thanks Marty. Just what we needed to hear. Now Norm and I will be accused of trying to promote self-teaching!! LOL.

Remember that if you kill yourself trying to teach yourself to fly an ultralight, you will be banned from posting here any longer. It's in the EAA forum rules.

-Buzz

LOL