Hello,
I've read somewhere (though I cannot find it now) that if a Continental has certain types of "things" (seals, o-rings, carburetor, etc) that you can use E10 in it, at least part of the time. Does anyone know what these "things" are? Being able to use gas from a local station would go a long way towards reducing the hourly cost of flying.
There is no legal way to put ethanol of any sort into a certificated aircraft operating under the EAA or Petersen STCs.
As far as experimentals goes, that is up to you. Not only do you need to look at the carb but also the rest of the fuel system (notably the gascolator is known to be a problem with it's o-rings swelling) as well as corrosion issues in the tank and any metal lines you have. Then you get to play aircraft engineer and test pilot with regard to volatility and vapor lock (of course, you did that as soon as you put autogas in the thing anyhow).
Dave,
I am going to assume that you mean '...configurations that allow ethanol' . The next question - how much are you talking about ? I am assuming it is the mogas 10% and I am going to shift toward the end of the branch and say most engines will tolerate 10% ethanol - but as noted before - many of the seals, rubbers, plastics that have fuel either running through them or potentially splashed/dripped on will need to be checked for compatibility.
A certified engine running on non certified fuel takes the engine out of certification. A certified engine/prop running on non certified fuel during Phase One flight will void your 25 hours and move you into the more common 40 hours of Phase One.
As noted - once out of certification you are now experimental. The next question from me is.... once out of certification can it be brought back into certification?
A hangarmate w a Cessna 140A had his fuel line swell partially shut from FBO sourced fuel. It turned out they accidently got a load of E10 rather than the UL they had requested & didn't test it since it was a "certified load". The bulk truck guy grabbed the wrong hose. I figured from my tests that his airplane had about 5% ethanol.
On the subject of ethanol, does anyone have an actual first hand story about ethanol causing a serious problem with their (experimental) airplane. I have read lots of warnings about what it could/will do, but these all seem to be the same warning that is just passed along. We are all scared of ethanol, I am too, but I would love to know if there are some real, no doubt, 100% sure cases of ethanol problems in aircraft engines. Just asking!
MMorrison123, Yep. I know of two actual cases that I have seen personally. The first was a friend's Kolb that the ethanol "digested" the fuel tank and leaked 10 gallons of ethanol tainted fuel on to his hangar floor. The other was a friend in a Phantom who made an off airport landing when the engine quit. Investigation showed the gascolator plugged with some "sludge" looking material. Backtracking through the fuel system showed the inside of the fuel tank flaking off with about a 1/4 inch of residue in the bottom of the tank. It had deteriorated to the extent that in areas of the tank, one could poke your finger through the tank with little effort. In my lawn mower, it has required two costly trips to the maintenance facility to have the fuel system flushed out and all gaskets and filters replaced. The owner of the shop said that his business has doubled since the introduction of ethanol in gasoline. That, plus what it has done toward raising the price of corn, corn products and all meat raised on corn (beef, chicken, pork, eggs, etc), is enough for me to hate the stuff!
Cheers,
Jerry
NC22375
65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania
Hi David,
Focusing on the question "Are there any Continental o-200 configurations that make ethanol OK" A quick review of the Regulation Guidance Library (at www.faa.gov) limited to the Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS) and Supplemental Type Certificates (STC) for the 0-200A, B, C, D, and X show that 1). only avgas is approved as fuels and 2). there are no STC for ethanol. The EAA's STCs only allow "unleaded automotive gasoline, 87 minimum antiknock index, per ASTM Specification D-439 or D-4818 of any volatility class, A through E, or 82UL AVGAS per ASTM D-6227."
So the short answer is "no" for certificated aircraft and of course this does not apply to experimental aircraft.
Thanks for the Reiteration, Kurt. It's pretty much what I said in the very first reply.
FlyingRon answered the question in the first reply to this thread. He cited the EAA and Petersen STCs that totaly bar any ethanol use whatsoever. Using ethanol implies that your'e using Auto Gas and that brings up more questions. I haven't seen the EAA STC. Todd Petersen also has done a bunch of testing and published a bunch of info on his web site.
http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/pa/Home.html
I find that 30 minutes on his site is a mini course on aviation fuel and answers the questions that you asked.
Petersen lists lots of O-200 models approved for STC. He discusses valve seat recession as a problem with small TCM engines among many others. He says that a tank of 100LL every 75 hours should fix it.
I was locked into 100LL on my last plane because when Petersen tested my type, it quit cold. He just moved on to the next one. I bought a new Dodge truck in 05 and it got 20 mpg on non ethanol fuel. When e-10 became prevelent, it dropped to around 15 mpg despite an aftermarket air filter, synthetic oil, tune ups and a presidentialy approved tire guage. I know that pure ethanol only has 70% of the energy of gasoline and reduces range in both aircraft and p.u. trucks by that much. I have a standby generator that is now inop because I gassed it up when the first hurricane came into the gulf.
I use the pure-gas.org web site and avoid e-10 whenever possible. I regard buying e-10 the same as buying a gallon of milk for the kids and finding that it is 10% dilluted with water.
Bob
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