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Thread: A $5000 annual and I get to take my airplane home in pieces

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Lockhart, Texas, United States
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    Angry A $5000 annual and I get to take my airplane home in pieces

    Man, I so want to get my RV finished and be done with certified aircraft.

    ---- rant on ----- unhappy camper ---- you might want to skip this post ----

    After jumping through the necessary hoops I got my PPL this spring. Last year I bought a '58 Piper Tripacer for $20k because the engine was supposed to have been gone through and the ADs taken care of. So I fly my Tripacer in for an owner assisted annual, a month and a half ago. I'm told that two cylinders have 40/45 psi compression. It might be true but she's been climbing out at 800 fpm. I tell the shop to do what is necessary but skip the engine work because it will break my budget. Having long experience in engine work I'd take a look at the engine myself.

    A month and a half later I show up to reassemble the aircraft. I've filed the ferry permit paperwork with the FAA to make the 15 mile flight home (over a bunch of empty fields). They deny it.

    I'm not going to anti up another $3000 to replace the two cylinders without seeing what's wrong for myself so I decide just to pull the wings from my bird and trailer her home. Time to settle up and my tab is $5300.

    Ouch.

    I'm not going to point fingers at the shop that did the work. They have certain rules that they are obligated to abide by. Yes there were value judgements made and they are the professionals so I'm not going to question them.

    But the question keeps getting asked, why are there so few pilots? At this point my feeling is that the payoff for all the hoops it's necessary to jump through and the associated expenses may or may not be there. Right now it feels to me like the problem is not with aviation, it's with the system itself. The FAA has done a great job of keeping commercial flights in the air. But that bureaucracy doesn't exactly seem to be making it friendly for the little guy.

    I like flying my Tripacer - the view is nice on a clear day but it's sure taken a lot of time and expense to enjoy that view. But I've got to ask myself is it really fun enough? It is too damn slow.

    I guess that there is an up side. The up side is that almost all of my experiences with the certified aircraft strengthen my motivation that much more to get my RV6-A put together. After I post this I'm going to go out and see if everything is ready for me to start assembling the fuel tanks.

    I've raced drag bikes on and off since the early 1970s. The nice thing about bike racing is that the track inspectors pretty much always gave us a pass because they didn't know what to look for on a bike. I was starting a front engine dragster project when I came upon the bureaucracy known as the National Hot Rod Association. Believe it or not, they may be worse than the FAA. Their drivers medical exam was worse than my flight physical anyway. That was what started my adventure as a pilot. (The rail is now hanging on my shop wall. Everybody should have at least one race car part hanging on their shop wall.) I'm hoping that ownership of a self built experimental will be more like the motorcycle experience than the dragster experience.

    As for the Tripacer at this point I'm annoyed enough that I'm tempted to sell it. But the wife's requirement is four seats and high wings and I'll probably not do any better at those requirements on my budget so I'll be clearing out some space in the shop and taking a look at that engine.

    I really want to be done with certified aircraft.

    ----- rant off -----
    Last edited by Eric Marsh; 07-18-2012 at 08:40 PM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Minnetonka MN
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    Ouch!

    You probably know this but repeat the compression test on a warm engine. Assuming it still doesn't make the numbers, find out stake the valves, find where it is leaking (intake, exhaust, or crankcase breather). Then check for the valve stem wobble, and borescope the valve faces to see if there are obvious hot spots.

    Don't tear it apart til you post what you find.

  3. #3

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    Will do. The original test was on a hot engine. I learned that lesson some time back. I figured that first I would pull the intake tubes and exhaust manifold and listen for leaking air there. I quickly checked the lifters to make sure they weren't bottomed out and they seemed to be OK. I'm thinking exhaust valve myself since the plugs were reading lean.

  4. #4

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    Northern IL
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    Might not hurt to watch the Mike Busch Webinar on annual inspections. Probably a bunch of others of interest to a new owner also.

  5. #5
    Jim Rosenow's Avatar
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    Smithville, OH
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    Eric, first let me say I feel your pain...been there, and it hurts! I completely understand your frustration.

    Second, some hopefully constructive comments based more on your previous situation than your current one (your post is in hangar talk, not the maintenance forum). They're more directed at the potential first-time buyer that may be reading this than anyone else.

    An extensive pre-buy inspection by someone intimate with the particular a/c type is crucial to buying any airplane, especially in our current situation where a lot of airplanes are just sitting around. IMHO a pre-buy should have caught much of whatever contributed to a $5K annual. The shortwing Pipers in particular have an excellent/active type club (www.shortwing.org) that can answer almost any question. Highly recommend them.

    You didn't mention your qualifications for working on aircraft. In the lack of an A&P, I suggest being wary of posting non-owner-allowed maintenance to a public forum. Big Bro is watching! I understand you are a well-qualified mechanic....not worth anything with the FAA.

    All that said, you are where you are at this point. The up-side....once your T/P is in working order, you will have an aircraft that can compete with anything current for basic flying. Speed, load-carrying ability (within limits of course) and functionality are all excellent.

    Again, previous experience makes me totally empathatic with your situation, and I wish you an easy fix.

    Jim
    EAA 64315

  6. #6

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    Jim, I spent a lot of time looking for an aircraft I could afford that met my requirements. I purchased it from an A&P who had done the engine work and the previous annual. Since this was done remotely I had to work with the assumption that I could trust him. At least he is being pretty good about helping me out on this thing.

    I am a member of the Shortwing club so I can call on those resources.

    As for working on the aircraft, I'm well aware of the legal limitations to what I can do. Legally I can do the disassembly and I will have the machine work done by an appropriate person. I will also assemble it under the eye of our local A&P or pay him to do the assembly and have all the work properly signed off. Of course anything that I can do myself will help me to cut my expenses which at this point is important.

    As for my background, it's not in aviation but I spent a dozen years as an automotive machinist and have paid my dues in that industry. It includes rebuilding thousands of cylinder heads, grinding crankshafts, spending time at the CK-10 automatic hone in a union shop and machining/rebulding many hundreds of engines. I've run several machine shops. I've done race engine work and have a flow bench in my shop. This is not to say that I'm an expert at aircraft engines, just that I have a pretty good working relationship with engine work in general. So I figure that if I read the manuals and ask questions I probably won't get in over my head.

  7. #7
    Jim Rosenow's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have a plan, Eric. Like I said, my comments were mostly for the next 'wannabe-first-time-owner'.

    If you're SWPC, I'm sure you know that Steve Pierce in Graham, TX is a good resource for SWPC stuff. His Daddy Gilbert raised him on 'em from a pup.

    Jim

  8. #8
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear about unexpected expenses. Just a side note to those who want to own a flying airplane while they work on a homebuilt. Don't do it. Those that do rarely finish their project. Not having an airplane to fly is the biggest motivator to get your homebuilt done. Not to mention additional incentive of avoiding expenses like this can ruin your budget. If you want to fly, rent a plane or fly your friends. My 2 cents.
    Last edited by Bugs66; 07-19-2012 at 01:05 PM.
    Bugs
    EAA 459462
    www.supercubproject.com

  9. #9

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    Nov 2011
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    Indiana
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    AH a thread that mirrors my experience, I, although ,would indeed blame the shop, 5k for a tri pacer annual???? well let me tell you it's our bretheren pilots not just the FAA that wants less pilots in the air. I've spent the last year plus parting out and building (from the existing fuse skeleton) an experimental I bought, it had been flying for 12 years but no AP would sign off on it without thousands in work all because they didn;t know the history and ect. ect. Someday I'll get my AP and hopefully can make a difference with pilots. I hope to go halves on a Mooney soon but only because it's local and the AP/IA that will do the annual has done so for the last 10 plus years. Good luck and don't give in and don't give that shop anymore work.

  10. #10

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    Spending $5k on a 50+ y/o airplane to get it to a mimimum acceptable level of airworthiness is not unusual. Hard to comment on whose at fault for what without details. One thing is for sure, the owner and IA had different expectations going in to the annual. Also very common because nobody wants to communicate until the invoice is written.

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