Has General Aviation Missed the Potential of Basic Ultralights?

[Ken Finney]

Actually, one of the ideas that has been floating around in my head (lots of room to float in there!) is some sort of "good neighbor fund" that ULers could contribute to that would go to their local airport(s). Something like a voluntary $50 a year contribution in lieu of all the fees not being paid, and the payer would get stickers to apply to their UL/car/whatever to show that they are "a good neighbor". Seems like a lot of goodwill could be created, and probably change some minds.

[Flyfalcons]

These are the same guys you're talking about that use Home Depot hardware in lieu of aircraft hardware to save a few bucks?

[Ken Finney]

Ouch! Well, some of them are, but since even John Walton succumbed to this, I expect in many cases this is done due to availability rather than cost. And, I've seen the same thing on certified airplanes. But if part of the problem is to somehow differentiate the "good" ULers from the "bad" ULers, this might be a way to do it! Remember, I said there is a lot of room for things to float around in my head! :^)

[Eric Page]

The availability excuse might have worked in the 80's, but not today, with the ease of ordering the correct hardware online. I just got a box from Aircraft Spruce yesterday with nothing but a few feet of MIL-W-22759 wire in it for an airplane electronics project I'm working on. I could have used PVC coated automotive wire, but it's just too easy to get the proper stuff.

[jedi]

Having just returned from a trip to do some single seat ultralight instruction I thought this might be a good time to note my two cents worth on procedures.

1. I think this is a good concept.
2. It is necessary to start young, before teen age interests set in. I think 9 or ten would be a good minimum age.
3. Start them on non pilot projects, kites and model airplanes. This will get them involved and teach aerodynamics and construction.
4. First flights should be in kites and gliders. These do not require the large fields that are required for powered ultralights. Costs and danger are also more controllable.
5. Transition to powered ultralights is the ultimate goal.
6. I believe pilots, in general, make safer drivers. They learn to manage safety issues. Pitch the safety aspect. A teenager that has gone through the ultralight program will be a safer driver.
7. The program needs to work with the AMA (American Model Airplane) clubs. They have a lot in common and older modelers will be a great asset.
8. Once the members are old enough to drive they should be converted to support activities or go out on their own. The objective is to support the youngsters. Much like the Hitler youth programs. (But do not emphasize the similarities.)
9. If you can still remember your feeling of accomplishment when you first soloed after 8 or more hours of dual, imagine the feeling of accomplishment when you first solo, like that little bird with no dual, after just working with the older, wiser more accomplished birds (or perhaps your parents).
10. Now, what if you actually built and test flew the craft you are flying? Would that increase your sense of accomplishment?
11. Could a plan with that goal in mind easily built one aircraft per year and use the funds from the sale of that UL to help fund the program?

[Flyfalcons]

1. If you can still remember your feeling of accomplishment when you first soloed after 8 or more hours of dual, imagine the feeling of accomplishment when you first solo, like that little bird with no dual, after just working with the older, wiser more accomplished birds (or perhaps your parents).

Please tell me you're not thinking about someone's first flying experience being by themselves in a single seat ultralight.

[jedi]

Please tell me you're not thinking about someone's first flying experience being by themselves in a single seat ultralight.

Yes I am!
That is the way the pioneers did it and that is the way the FAA expects FAR 103 ultralight training to be accomplished. The FAA is now enforcing the ban on dual training in powered paragliders and perhaps hang gliders if they have wheels attached to the airframe or engine mount.
This technique has been used successfully in the past.
By the way, the instructor does not need to have FAA certificates either.
If you like you can follow the thread “Learning to Fly Ultralights” on the EAA "Learning to Fly" strip.

[steveinindy]

That is the way the pioneers did it

Go back and look at how many of the "pioneers" died very early in their flying careers (Eugene Ely, Otto Lilienthal, Lincoln Beachey, Karl Jatho, John Joseph Montgomery, a lot of WWI pilot trainees, et al) in part due to the "trial and error" learning approach that we have moved past. Just because "They did it that way back in the good ol' days" does not mean that it was a good idea.

that is the way the FAA expects FAR 103 ultralight training to be accomplished. The FAA is now enforcing the ban on dual training in powered paragliders and perhaps hang gliders if they have wheels attached to the airframe or engine mount.

....or you start them out in a registered "fat ultralight" and then move them over to a single seat model once they have the basics down. That is how most ultralight pilots I know- including myself- learned to fly.

[Buzz]

Go back and look at how many of the "pioneers" died very early in their flying careers

I don't believe he's referring to the pioneers of aviation. He’s talking about the pioneers in ultralight instruction.

Safe, effective ultralight training did not start with the FAA 2-place exemption. There was safe, effective ultralight training being by done knowledgeable, experienced instructors using the early basic designs [like the 2-axis Quicksilver MX] and a proven single place training methodology.

Those of us that were around in the pioneering days know from first-hand knowledge that the safety record of the single place training methodology was every bit as good as the 2-seat training methodology [when done by an instructor experienced in the method].

The reason why the single place training methodology got a bad reputation is because too many people tried to figure it out by themselves and self-teach. As they say, “Any doctor that treats himself has fool for a patient.” Anyone that thought they could instruct themselves using a single place ultralight had a fool for an instructor.

Had you started out learning to fly ultralights before the 2-seat exemption, those of us instructing at the time would have instructed you in a single place.

Rather than talking about the “good old days” of the 2-seat ultralight exemption, maybe it’s time to remember what the early pioneers learned about ultralight instruction. We didn’t NEED the 2-seat exemption to get people safely flying ultralights. We could and did safely instruct using a single seat method.

The main thing the 2-seat exemption gave the industry was the ability to get a TON of potential customers hooked on the experience of ultralight flight by a trip around the pattern. And a great way to make money giving introductory flights. Those were a better revenue generator per hour for an ultralight dealership than instruction.

The ultralight industry has never been able to stop people from trying to teach themselves. Part 103 allows it.

But if the 2-seat exemption would have never been created and you wanted to get instruction so you could safely get into ultralight flying, that instruction existed. And it had an excellent safety record.

[steveinindy]

The reason why the single place training methodology got a bad reputation is because too many people tried to figure it out by themselves and self-teach. As they say, “Any doctor that treats himself has fool for a patient.” Anyone that thought they could instruct themselves using a single place ultralight had a fool for an instructor.

Agreed.

Had you started out learning to fly ultralights before the 2-seat exemption, those of us instructing at the time would have instructed you in a single place.

If I recall correctly, that exemption went into place after I learned to fly ultralights in the mid-1990s.