Something Missing

[Hangar10]

I'm not saying that some didn't find it fun, but heck, if that is the standard then let's install a water park, a shooting gallery, a skate park, a baseball diamond and invite McDonald's to come on in. I wouldn't suggest that we make it "not fun", but for many, the fun is the airplanes and airplane people... I''m hoping that it remains fun for people who like airplanes.

By the way, the son that I mentioned in my previous post is 8 years old and he likes airplanes and airplane stuff. His reaction to the farris wheel was also one of disgust. Yes, he also likes fairs, carnivals, etc., but not particularly at the big airshow. If Ford wants to bring that stuff to lure kiddos, and more importantly, their parents, fine... we do appreciate you Ford. It just kind of cluttered up the skyline to see a bunch of aircraft tails, a control tower and... a farris wheel. What's next?

[skeeter_ca]

I laughed at the ferris wheel and just thought of it as funny. This was only my 2nd time at Oshkosh, the first was about 25 yrs ago. I was there at schroller all week. I came in on monday afternoon on a shuttle from appleton carrying suit cases and a big bag of camping equipment. Impossible to carry around. The lady at the camper registration desk promptly call for a golf cart to take us around and find a site. We found plenty only about 50yds from showers and restrooms. Later during the week a few campers left and we picked up our tent and moved it to about 50ft from the showers. great spot near the showers, yellow store and the bus stop. Couldn't of asked for better getting to the show so late.

Loved it the entire time i was there. Hope to go back soon but i know it won't be next year.

As for something that was missing. For me it was the experimentals. There just wasn't alot there for experimentals. Big Iron, Jets, WWII, LSA's, GA are all nice because they are planes too but i'm really interested in the homebuilt arena. BTW, i'm not interested in the 500+ RV's that were there. To common for me. I like the unique and different.

skeeter

[steve]

Did they hafta keep the thing lit up all flippin' night?
Speaking as a 8 year N40 veteran but a first timer in HBC, what's up with the high intensity street (prison compound) lighting along the south boundary? You guys get free electricity during the week?

[mrstephenson]

mrstephenson.... allow me to ask you one question.. IF you were camped in that private campsite...would you go out the 'legal' exits of it and go around the maintaince building and go into Camp Schroller that way, or would you use the 'path of least resistance'??? Come on already..

I would absolutely walk around and do it the legal way! In fact, I went to the Ultralight area a number of times during the week. Every time I biked around the maintenance building to get the Ultralight area legally. The “path of least resistance” to the Ultralights would be to go through that private campground. Not one single time did I cut across that private campground for one simple reason: it is private property and I did not have a legal right to be in that campground. Despite the 40,000 people camping there, Camp Scholler is also private property and requires special credentials to enter it. If I did not have a legal right to be there, I would not enter it. To do so would be trespassing on private property.

Yes..a wristband was purchased to gain access to the Airventure grounds..and althouth no wristband is required for Camp Schroller...arent those persons that stay at the private campground in Oshkosh, Wi. for the same reason you are?? To attend Airventure???

Entering the AirVenture grounds is not the issue here; legally entering Camp Scholler is the issue. There are a number of entrances to AirVenture that do not require someone entering Camp Scholler, and someone with a wristband but not camping credentials should use those legal entrances to the grounds. The Knapp Street entrance by the Theater in the Woods is a good example of such an entrance. Those entrances are used by people who rent houses or hotel rooms and drive to AirVenture. Why should people in the private campgrounds expect to be treated differently?

To enter Camp Scholler legally, one must purchase camping credentials that includes passes for both the vehicle and the camping unit. The pass for the camping unit stays on the tent, RV, etc for the entire week so that EAA Security can easily see that the unit is there legally. The vehicle pass must be displayed on the vehicle every time someone legally enters the campground because security guards stand watch 24 hours a day at each of the legal campground entrances. Each bike or scooter also requires a pass. The passes are VERY visible. As I am sure you realize, this year’s passes were NEON GREEN. It is hard to miss the camping credentials, and one needs to display the proper credentials every time to legally enter the campgrounds. To enter Camp Scholler without these credentials is trespassing--plain and simple.

I stayed at that campgrounds my last two visits to Oshkosh...in '09 and again this year.. I did not arrive until Wed afternoon and I was camped about 75 feet from Knapp Street!!! I did not use the 'shortcut' you mentioned, as there were several 'good' access places along Knapp … As an ex-truck driver, by partner and I used the showers at the truck stop down at exit 113.

I assume you mean that you stayed at a private campground. If so, VERY good for you! I never said, or meant to imply, that everyone staying in the private campgrounds broke the rules. However, there were MANY people that did break the rules—some very noisily at 3am!

As far as those people using the Camp showerhouses...would you rather they not use anya at all..and you were sitting beside them , downwind, watching the airshow??? Lets face it..not everyone can or wants to camp in Schroller..

In short, yep! I would rather smell someone who followed the rules than see someone break ‘em! I am PREFECTLY okay with someone camping in a private campground, just like I am okay with someone staying at a hotel or rented house, as long as they don’t expect to use the services of a campground they didn’t pay to use!

[Mayhemxpc]

Hear hear! Well said and responded to.

Now, can we move on to whatever was the "something" that was missing this year so that next year can be truly awesome? (This year being "merely" awesome?)

[rickatic]

Does not the wrist band grant access to places like the Fly-In Theater? This is accessed via the Camp Scholler area. I think claiming criminal trespass of those who have purchased a wristband is a big stretch. I had my friends over for dinner one evening...they have weekly wristbands...is that beyond reasonable behavior? I visited my friends at their site as well...when I drove my scooter through the gate, I just let them know I was visiting...they waved me through...

I understand you were inconvenienced by some rowdies...but there were many rowdies camped in Camp Scholler as well...kind of hard to tell them apart as they all like airplanes...

Regards

[Gently56]

This being my first trip to Oskosh, I feel obligated to post my "expatations of THE Oskosh" experience.
I happen to be a very logical person and always look to practicality and operation. Overall it was a excellent adventure and my Grandson really enjoyed the whole trip, however any venue this large can use some CONSTRUCTIVE critism. That said, then here we go!

I felt the layout was a bit poor, I would expect that the Experimental, and homebuilt areas should be formost in location, as in under or around the brown arch, the birthplace of the EAA, instead it is out in a field, and I felt it was "out of the way" almost like... "well they HAVE to go through here to get to the warbirds"! I understand why the ultralights and the seaplanes are seperated but come on, the experimentals and homebuilts ARE what Oshkosh is really about. Put them where they should be! In the CENTER of it all.


Now I understand the whole "sponsorship and the support of major companies" buy what is it really about? do we the members really want to "sell out" to someone who puts up major dollars and then the guys who want to build, experiment and learn are forced to the "Outer Markers" of the show. Again this is just my opinion and we all know the facts about opinions...everyone has one!!


The trams were, in a word great, a bit slow but thats O.K. because it gives a bit of time to rest in between the areas. the busses were fabulous and the drivers very helpful and cheerful. we stayed in Camp scholler (lindburg and 13th) and were very happy it was quiet and pleasant. Kid venture kept my granson entertained and happy to the point that I did not have all the time I wanted to see all the "grown up stuff" but My grandson became a young eagle and plans to come back next year.


Now for my pet peeve... Yeah I am a smoker, thats right a horrible smoke emitting bag of tobacco sucking waste of space. whatever...Please mark the smoking areas...let me repeat PLEASE MARK THE SMOKING AREAS!! I really dont care WHERE you want the smoking areas, I will always try to go to the proper places but the MAP was WRONG!! I follow the map and there was always someone with the shirt, radio and vest telling me that there is no smoking here, I point out ON THE MAP where we are standing and get the "not my problem" look!! Jeesh just make a sign for the correct SMOKING area near the spot on the map! (I learned the "Oshkosh cup" from a few helpful folks, but I would rather just be in the correct area)

Yes, it did not seem to be "special" since I have been wanting to go for almost 25 years, eventful ...yep, Special..not really. Airshows were very good, and as much as it pains me to say a bit redundant, Steve Miller Band...yeahhhhh O.K., Blooze Bros.... again fun and entertaining. but overall it "Just was missing something". and that is to say alot from a guy who has never been there before! Will I go back next year, you betcha! I learned alot and met some great people and over all had some good fun, but Special it just missed!


Mike

[Bill]

Yes, it did not seem to be "special" since I have been wanting to go for almost 25 years, eventful ...yep, Special..not really.

Mike

I have been going to Oshkosh on and off (mostly on) for thirty years. Perhaps much of the pain we feel from the "new" Oshkosh is from the memories of the Special years that we enjoyed. Special was any year that Bob Hoover performed, either in his P-51 or the Shrike Commander (you realized that you would always be only an amateur, ham-fisted pilot in comparison to Bob). Special were the years when we could watch Dick Rutan fly the Voyageur, or, later, see SpaceShipOne on its way to the Smithsonian to be enshrined in aviation history. Special years had either the SR-71 or the Concorde performing; I've never been sure which was louder, but you could feel the pressure waves from either the pair of J-58s or the four Olympus engines. A special year might have the AN-124 appearing with all those landing gear wheels (almost more than I could count). Or a special year would have the glider aerobatics during the airshow when the announcer would ask the audience to be silent (no longer possible with the new, intrusive, mega-audio front of the flight line speakers) so that we could hear the whoosh of the air over the glider wings, and we did. In those years, your pulse never slowed down and you drove or flew home with a wide smile on your face.

This year, courtesy of a coupled of underfunded volunteers, I watched part of the airshow and scanned Airventure via the webcams from the top of a 7,000-ft high mountain in Arizona that is 50 miles from the nearest city (the webcams would be a fabulous way to attract visitors to Airventure if more bandwidth was available so that more could use them without bringing down the system). I just didn't see anything that I could call "Special" either.

[danielfindling]

. Perhaps much of the pain we feel from the "new" Oshkosh is from the memories of the Special years that we enjoyed.

Great post! I agree with your highlights, how about . . .Special years like Delmar Benjamin flying the Gee Bee in a low level knife edge pass or watching Jimmy Franklin in his Jet Waco or a guy flying across lake Michigan in a lawn chair with helium balloons or listening to Burt Rutan, a famous test pilot, Scott Crossfield, and Bob Hoover (he was ill and missed the forum I went too this year). Special years like watching a guy from Japan bring his single seat helicopter powered by chain saw motors or the Martin Jet pack fly - the Cartercopter fly, the Sikorsky fly, the ?? Fly. Listening to a yodel early in the morning. The newest homebuilt.innovation, dreams, history, culture and WOW keeps bringing me back. This year had me searching for the sole of Oshkosh. I was a little confused. A ferris wheel, a bouncy house, model A cars, no Rutan, an average airshow, some empty space in the trade show hangers. It was still good. John McGinnis and his Synergy project, SpaceX, NASAs return, a better Tram system, better food, seeing and hearing Jerry's one man band for 30 sec. Being in Oshkosh.I do not know if it is the economy, the leadership, or just one of those years. However, I will return next year, hoping to find another special year. I just don't know how many more years.

[stummers]

What was missing for me this year was something unique on Aeroshell (Phillips) square. Though probably no fault of the EAA, No 787 or A380, Vickers Vimmy, Super Guppy, but I never do tire of looking at C-5s or C-17s. An F-15 and or an F-22 would have been nice to see also. Participation by the active military seemd to be down this year.