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Thread: EAA Forums - My long-winded thoughts on the culture, etc.

  1. #1
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    EAA Forums - My long-winded thoughts on the culture, etc.

    Hi everybody -

    I was chatting with my boss this morning about our forums, discussing ideas about how we can better engage with our more senior management to make sure that we do the best job we can when it comes to answering questions and addressing the “hot topic” issues. The conversation drifted a bit from there (as any conversation I’m involved in tends to do) and became a discussion about the overall tone and culture of the forums, which is what got me thinking about writing this post.


    First of all, there’s a lot to love about what goes on here – anytime somebody involved in a project needs a hand and posts a question, the responses are usually an embarrassment of riches, full of support and great advice. These are cases of members helping members, both directly by answering the original posters question, and indirectly, by making the answer publicly available to anyone who might be reading the threads and have similar questions that they haven’t yet asked.


    When a new person shows up and introduces themselves and says they want to build an airplane or learn to fly or whatever, the responses are fantastic. There’s an outpouring of support and a sense of fellowship that, to me, is the very definition of what EAA should be about. Things like these prove my theory that what I think of as the “EAA spirit” transcends technology and turns these forums into one big virtual EAA Chapter. And that’s why I come to work every day. Heck, that’s why I start looking in on the forums from my iPhone the instant I get out of bed in the morning. (That and to delete any spam posts that my friend Matt may have reported overnight.)


    This may be harder to believe, but I also love to see the more, shall we say, constructive feedback that gets shared here. You’ve got a bunch of ideas to improve camping in the South 40? You thought the chalets were in a bad spot? You have suggestions about the air show? You think there should be more free water? GREAT! We need to know these things, obviously. When I see those discussions get started, I get the satisfaction of knowing that, by doing my job, I’ve provided the platform for you to help make EAA and, in these examples, AirVenture, better. Without venues like these forums, these discussions might happen in a vacuum – individuals sending letters and/or emails or making phone calls to offer their feedback, but without the support of or, in some cases, the debate with your fellow members. Individual feedback is absolutely invaluable — crucial, in fact — but I personally believe that there’s also tremendous value in having a more public discussion about some of these things, and I’m proud to play an integral part in making those happen and ensuring that they continue.

    With all that said, there are aspects of the culture that can be pretty dispiriting, and run the risk of damaging the credibility of the forums themselves and shooting us all in the foot when it comes to trying to work together to find better ways of doing things. Personal attacks in particular are not tolerated, period. Beyond that, though, arbitrary statements that are factually incorrect, and some of the occasionally overpowering negativity just don’t do any of us any good. Much more importantly, that’s not who any of us are as members of EAA or the aviation community at large.


    Consider this, then, a general reminder and a direct request to pay extra attention to the culture of your forums. Not a single one of you would ever dream of throwing a piece of trash on the ground at AirVenture, and I’m sure that all of you would stop and pick it up if someone else did. Once again, that’s just who we are, and I think these forums should feel the same way.


    If you have feedback, comments, questions, or complaints, by all means, keep them coming! I think you’re going to find that we’ll be stepping up our efforts to respond and address those things as best as we possibly can. Just remember to please keep things civil, respectful, and on-topic.

    If it helps, and it may or may not, remember that I’ve got to take some of these conversations directly to the VPs or to Rod, and it’s challenging when I have to say something like “Here’s some great ideas and a couple of very serious questions about EAA and AirVenture, but just ignore the part where these two guys yell at each other and one of them says ‘Hal is a jerk who secretly hates airplanes and once frowned at a puppy.’”


    I’m not whining, and I’m not asking anyone to make my job easier, but I am asking you to help me help all of us, if that makes any sense.


    Thanks for reading this, and ongoing thanks to all of you that participate regularly and are passionate enough to share your ideas about how to improve your organization.


    - Hal

    Hal Bryan
    EAA Lifetime 638979
    Vintage 714005 | Warbirds 553527
    Managing Editor
    EAA—The Spirit of Aviation

  2. #2
    Jim Rosenow's Avatar
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    Whoa!!!!....you FROWNED at a puppy?????? I'm DONE with ya, ya consarn galoot! LOL!

    Thanks for your thoughts...I think it behooves all of us to be adult and play nicely here...just like I assume the majority of us would in person. Disagee (if necessary), don't denigrate.

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    Hal, well said. The best part of aviation, across all lines, from airline to military, home-built to certified aircraft, AMT's to ATP's, and on and on, is the common passion for flight and the camaraderie that it brings. The best friends I've ever made are in aviation.

    To echo Jim's comment, let us agree, that if we must disagree, that we not be disagreeable.
    Anxiety is nature's way of telling you that you've already goofed up.

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    Well we all heard it here first and everything said on an online forum is always the truth. EAA officially hates puppies now!!!


    Just kidding of course.


    I agree with most of what you said, the only thing that I would ask is that these forums don't start getting moderated to the point that posts are getting deleted. If they do then at least keep the post, delete what needs to be deleted, and add a note so those reading the thread know that either part of or an entire post was removed. Transparency is what will keep these forums relavant and usefull. A personal e-mail to the offenders and the occasional post asking that things stay on topic is usually all that is needed.

    Keith


    Keith
    Last edited by kmacht; 08-03-2012 at 11:42 AM.

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    Very nice post Hal! I think almost everyone wants to see the EAA to succeed. However, there are always those few that serve no purpose other than wanting to see the world burn.
    Last edited by RV8505; 08-03-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  6. #6
    WeaverJ3Cub's Avatar
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    Thank you Hal. Well said, well timed, and much needed.

    I must say I appreciate this all the more as a new (less than one month) EAA member. I finally joined after hearing wonderful things about EAA, appreciating what you guys do, and being very interested in AirVenture every year. I must say, when I joined the forums the day after getting my membership card, I was excited to finally be "in" and was floored by the response my tailwheel endorsement post got. Then, as Airventure wound down last week and the complaints and personal attacks on Rod got more and more frequent, I started wondering "Do I really want to go to AirVenture and see these people in person? What kind of organization is this anyway? AOPA doesn't have this."

    So....thanks Hal. We need constructive criticism, but not vitriol. There's enough of that in our world. And I would add, not only does EAA need us to be civil, but general aviation does as well. Non-pilots and non-EAA members post and visit these forums as well, and I'm sure what they see colors their perception of GA as well as EAA.

  7. #7
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmacht View Post
    I agree with most of what you said, the only thing that I would ask is that these forums don't start getting moderated to the point that posts are getting deleted. If they do then at least keep the post, delete what needs to be deleted, and add a note so those reading the thread know that either part of or an entire post was removed.
    I agree with you 99.99% of the time, Keith, and I can tell you that there are no changes to any of our policies or our approach to these forums in light of some of the recent discussions. Other than pure spam, I'd guess that I've removed less than 10 posts in the 13 months this forum has been active. I don't do this lightly, but, if one user is directly attacking another, I don't see any value in, say, just locking the thread and leaving the offending comment there for all to see.

    As long as it's not patently offensive, obscene, slanderous/libelous, or a case of one user directly attacking another, it stays.

    Quote Originally Posted by kmacht View Post
    Transparency is what will keep these forums relavant and useful.
    Amen to that!

    My bottom line with all of this is that there are too many important topics being discussed here to let any of the threads devolve into shouting matches or to run the risk that anyone's voice be discounted because the passions behind the conversation got out of hand.

    Hal Bryan
    EAA Lifetime 638979
    Vintage 714005 | Warbirds 553527
    Managing Editor
    EAA—The Spirit of Aviation

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    Hal, excellent stump speech, glad you're confirming that some of these forum comments will be brought to managements attention and acted upon as required and as necessary.

    Hal, as you know, I'm not one to suffer fools gladly here so I think I'm in need of some definitive direction and clarification on the cultural aspects, particularily in the area of "personal attacks".

    I have never said or would say uncivil or disrespectful things like "you're a fu**in' moron" or your mother s***ks c***s in hell". I'm more of the dripping wet with witty sarcasm type in reply to intolerable, insufferable and ignorant individuals.

    So, in the name of paying extra attention to the forums culture in order to not damage it's credibility, I need to know if I can still say things like, "Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak."

    Forewarned is forearmed! Have a great weekend.
    Last edited by Floatsflyer; 08-03-2012 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #9
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floatsflyer View Post
    Hal, as you know, I'm not one to suffer fools gladly here so I think I'm in need of some definitive direction and clarification on the cultural aspects, particularily in the area of "personal attacks".
    Great question.

    Let's say I posted my plans for a VTOL, 200-passenger LSA that ran on my new, proprietary, perpetual-motion powerplant.

    If you replied, "Hal, you're an idiot*", I'd call that a personal attack.

    If you replied, "That idea is stupid and impossible," well, I'd still rather you found a slightly nicer way to say it, but, by my definition, that's not a direct, personal attack against me.

    I don't mean to be patronizing or glib by presenting a ridiculous example, and I hope it's not coming off that way - it's just helpful for me when trying to establish some clarity. And, hopefully, introduce a little lightness here and there, with nothing but the best of intent.

    *- Yes, I know you'd come up with something much smarter than that...

    Hal Bryan
    EAA Lifetime 638979
    Vintage 714005 | Warbirds 553527
    Managing Editor
    EAA—The Spirit of Aviation

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    Off topic, but I gotta tell you, every year at OSH, someone comes to me with an idea for something like that airplane. Must be Karma or something...
    Anxiety is nature's way of telling you that you've already goofed up.

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