Flagmen and Marshaller's Signals

[Hal Bryan]

Hi Larry -

First off, make sure you're in the UPLOAD manager, not download. Here are the exact steps to attach a file, just to be sure we're on the same page:

1. When composing a message, click the "Attachments" button in the toolbar, the one with the paper clip. (Depending on your setup, you may need to click "Go Advanced" to get to the full-featured editor if you're just using a quick reply.)

2. This brings up the upload manager.

3. Click the "Add Files" button in the upper right, then click "Select Files" and browse your computer for the file you want to add.

4. Once you've chosen a file, click the "Upload Files" button to load it to the storage area associated with your forum account.

5. Once this is finished, the file should appear in the "Attachments" window at the bottom of the Upload Manager. If not, this is when you'd drag it from the list of files you've uploaded into the attachments box, otherwise, there's no drag and drop necessary.

6. Click "Done."

Let me know if this helps. If not, feel free to email me the file and I'll just go ahead and attach it to the original message: hbryan@eaa.org

Thanks -

Hal

[Lrrryo]

Hi Larry -

First off, make sure you're in the UPLOAD manager, not download. Here are the exact steps to attach a file, just to be sure we're on the same page:

1. When composing a message, click the "Attachments" button in the toolbar, the one with the paper clip. (Depending on your setup, you may need to click "Go Advanced" to get to the full-featured editor if you're just using a quick reply.)

2. This brings up the upload manager.

3. Click the "Add Files" button in the upper right, then click "Select Files" and browse your computer for the file you want to add.

4. Once you've chosen a file, click the "Upload Files" button to load it to the storage area associated with your forum account.

5. Once this is finished, the file should appear in the "Attachments" window at the bottom of the Upload Manager. If not, this is when you'd drag it from the list of files you've uploaded into the attachments box, otherwise, there's no drag and drop necessary.

6. Click "Done."

Let me know if this helps. If not, feel free to email me the file and I'll just go ahead and attach it to the original message: hbryan@eaa.org

Thanks -

Hal

Hal,

That was better... see if the chart of marshaller signals shows up.....



Larry

[Jim Clark]

We cut the FAA safety video on Ramp Hand Signals down to 4 minutes and use it to train ramp marshals at the National Biplane Fly In. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d8EQ...e_gdata_player

[Lrrryo]

We cut the FAA safety video on Ramp Hand Signals down to 4 minutes and use it to train ramp marshals at the National Biplane Fly In. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d8EQ...e_gdata_player

Jim,

4 minutes seems a bit skinny for training... and assume you do some live training, too? While not hard, it was clear that some of the marshalers and their supervisors had no clue about the signals, especially in turning planes.

[FlyingRon]

Vintage training runs an hour PLUS we hand out a book with the marshaling signals on it. Everybody goes through training every year.

[Bill Greenwood]

May I offer a tip from a pilot's perspective to a marhsller or flagman?
The pilot knows how to park the plane, ( or he should know).
If the flagman shows the pilot where he wants him to park, the pilot can put the plane there, while the flagmen watch the wingtips and other people, etc.
This is better than the flagman trying to drive the plane by remote control,as it were, and especilly true for tailwheel planes.

So as the pilot approaches , point to the desired parking spot, then as he gets closer give the specific directions to make the fine adjustments. And stand to the side so he can see you.

[FlyingRon]

That's pretty much what I do. If it's a nose wheel, I'll just stand dead center about 20' ahead of the plane and let him come towards me.
If it's a tail dragger, I'll stand to the side and try to get him centered well in advance.

I had to have a talk with one of our (supposedly experienced) parkers and point out that airplanes really don't want to make 90 degree sharp turns. If he'd just go where he want the plane to end up, the pilot will come to him at a comfortable radius. This pulling the guy down the aisle and then snapping him a sharp turn into the space isn't practical.

[Garrett]

AirVenture volunteers are trained to primarily use the signals in the Aeronautical Information Manual.

Unfortunately, that vocabulary of signals has some limitations that are revealed in a situation like AirVenture. One example that has been brough up is the lack of a signal for "We are going to put the tail of your airplane between these two tails". In the interest of saving pushing and pulling on planes, we try to position them as well as possible beforehand - as best we can.

Additionally, it's been widely noted that most pilots are not familiar with the AIM standard signals. In fact, this year we were offered paddles with "Stop" and "Go" printed on opposite sides, to facilitate signalling to pilots who are unaccustomed to the standards. This is the reason we use the "emergency stop" signal for stop - it's much less ambiguous to the unfamiliar pilot than the standard "stop" signal, which we've learned just doesn't work in too many cases.

The training video we've been using in Flight Line Ops is a bit dated (1988), but the content on signals is still 100% accurate. We're working on a fresher, non-VHS video, but the content remains basically unchanged, especially with respect to aircraft safety and movement. We also publish a handbook for all our volunteers with the signals included, along with a list of the sign codes listed in the NOTAM. That doesn't stop many people creating their own signs, of course (e.g. what would you do with a "RFA" sign? Apparently it's Replica Fighters Association, which we saw repeatedly this year).

The video training is augmented by in-person on-the-job training; often, after years of experience, a marshaller learns by repeated direct observation what signals for nonstandard operations like tail-parking have the highest probability of being understood. An experienced marshaller will also be able to judge a pilot's nonstandard reaction to signals, and compensate accordingly. A less experienced volunteer obviously won't have developed that skill.

Despite everything, though, mistakes are bound to happen - we volunteers are human, just like the pilots flying in (and many of our volunteers are, of course, pilots who flew in). Our goal is "safety above all else". Flight Line Operations, not counting the various showplane parking areas, has many new volunteers every year; we structure our operations to have cochairmen and experienced volunteers managing operations with less-experienced volunteers, giving them as much direction as necessary and a supervised environment in which to safely gain experience as well as evaluate the volunteer's abilities and suitability. We also understand that it can be a confusing and stressful environment for a pilot who has just flown halfway across the country, made his or her way through the Fisk arrival procedure and possibly taxied halfway across the airport, maybe with uncomfortable passengers and a full bladder. Simplicity leads to safety, and with the rapid pace of arrivals there isn't always time to do a perfect job, just a good-enough job. As a group, we strive to do the very best that we can.

For any confusion, we do humbly apologize.

Garrett Nievin
EAA #163899
Chairman, EAA AirVenture Oshkosh Flight Line Operations

[Lrrryo]

Garrett,

Thx for the detailed post.

For the most part, the volunteers do a great job.

I see a lot of confusion with the "go straight" signal, when the marshaller often means turn toward me. If they used the "turn right" or "turn left" signal, it would be pretty easy to understand. We see this a lot in parking where the marshaller gives the go straight signal and then walks back in an arc, expecting the plane to follow. Fortunately, parking is fairly obvious, but when one has a choice of two taxi ways, or a slight turn to avoid something, it's totally confusing.

This is the only signaling that I see a lot of confusion on.

If there is any confusion as to what is expected, I could argue to stop until it's resolved. That's a lot better than an accident or damage.

Thx again for the overall great job.

[Janet Davidson]

I see a lot of confusion with the "go straight" signal, when the marshaller often means turn toward me.

I see this all the time at FBOs all over the country. Not that it shouldn't be used correctly at AV, of course.