Which AV Exhibitors turned you on; which did not impress you?

[Floatsflyer]

Pie in the sky? The Icon marketing extravaganza. I'm not the "core customer", but it seems like too much development, too much slick video, and not enough "go see our customer type club parking area"... It’s WAY past time to shoot the engineers at that company and deliver the product already…

I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky, not by definition as they have happened and have achieved. With airplanes in advanced testing and with over 800 deposits equalling about $15 million in a trust account, not used for development financing and fully refundable. By any measure a success story. And a textbook consumer recreational product marketing strategy for a pure fun airplane, although I believe it's highly irresponsible to imply to the non-flying targeted consumer that you can fly this thing like you run a jetski(fully one-third of the orders so far are from non-pilots).

But I agree with you that the development program has been way too long, prodding and methodical(4+ years now) but I guess an argument can easily be made that too much is so much better than too little. The main reason is they're wanting to make it as aerodynamically safe as possible for all those jet skier types about to become sport pilots.

[Floatsflyer]

The new French company, Lisa Airplanes, debuting their SLSA Akoya Amphib. A stunning piece of design work and creative thinking but equally or even more stunning is the acquisition price--$400,000.00(no typo folks) Really??!! Really!!?? For an LSA!! I repeat REALLY!!?? The young management group here must be the offspring of parents who were at Woodstock and took the bad purple blotter acid.

I just read a post on FLYING site that the Lisa guys came back from Osh to find the company has declared bankruptcy and has been put into receivership for 6 months. Apparently much expected government funding did not come through.

For all of you that had $400K burning a hole in your pocket and plunked down a deposit, welcome to the unsecured creditors list.

"CAVEAT EMPTOR".....always!!!

[martymayes]

I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky, not by definition as they have happened and have achieved. With airplanes in advanced testing and with over 800 deposits equalling about $15 million in a trust account, not used for development financing and fully refundable. By any measure a success story. And a textbook consumer recreational product marketing strategy for a pure fun airplane, although I believe it's highly irresponsible to imply to the non-flying targeted consumer that you can fly this thing like you run a jetski(fully one-third of the orders so far are from non-pilots).

But I agree with you that the development program has been way too long, prodding and methodical(4+ years now) but I guess an argument can easily be made that too much is so much better than too little. The main reason is they're wanting to make it as aerodynamically safe as possible for all those jet skier types about to become sport pilots.

What happens if the FAA denies their weight exemption request? Are they dead in the water?

[WtrSkr]

I thought the servers in the SOS Tent were exhibiting quite nicely!

[Floatsflyer]

What happens if the FAA denies their weight exemption request? Are they dead in the water?

IMO, won't happen because it can't happen. Too much invested from too many stakeholders and too much at stake for the overall LSA category. FAA will not embarass itself by undermining or sticking a knife in what appears to be a success story in the making. There is precedent to be considered as well as the FAA gave an exemption to Terrafugia.


On the off chance that they do, Icon will have to make new choices in their engineering that will not affect the business operation.

[FloridaJohn]

I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky... By any measure a success story.

Well, except by the measure of "delivered product."

Too much invested from too many stakeholders and too much at stake for the overall LSA category. FAA will not embarass itself by undermining or sticking a knife in what appears to be a success story in the making. There is precedent to be considered as well as the FAA gave an exemption to Terrafugia.

I think the additional weight exemption will be denied by the FAA. Terrafugia was granted an exemption up to the amphibious LSA weight, which Icon already has approval for (by virtue of being amphibious). Terrafugia asked for a second exemption for even more weight, and was denied by the FAA. I would be very surprised if the FAA granted a weight exemption to Icon.

Personnally, I think Icon should give up trying to make an "LSA," and should just go right to standard category. Then they have no weight restrictions and can include all their neat-o features in one plane. I don't think enough additional customers will come from the LSA pilots to make it it worth the effort. It seems to me they have done almost enough testing already to just go standard category.

[Floatsflyer]

Personnally, I think Icon should give up trying to make an "LSA," and should just go right to standard category. Then they have no weight restrictions and can include all their neat-o features in one plane. I don't think enough additional customers will come from the LSA pilots to make it it worth the effort. It seems to me they have done almost enough testing already to just go standard category.

It's quite logical to assume that's part of their long term growth strategy. They will most likely follow the path of Flight Design with the C4. They'll continue to market and sell the LSA version while going through the certification process for a 4 place. I'm sure they'll keep both as part of the product line to cater to the distinct but seperate markets. Hopefully with a 4 place they will carefully study the experiences of Lake and not repeat their economics mistakes.

[Aaron Novak]

Turn-offs:

Lincoln-Electric. Personally I think it is distasteful to turn the educational area of the event into a sales grounds. That and the way they promote themselves as the "experts" gives the uneducated the idea that the company has some kind of credentials in the aviation world. Personally I would like to see the workshops area sponsored by people like Spruce, Airgas, Wicks, etc rather than a specific tool company, that may be biased in the information they give out under the flag of "education" in order to promote their own sales.

[martymayes]

IMO, won't happen because it can't happen. Too much invested from too many stakeholders and too much at stake for the overall LSA category. FAA will not embarass itself by undermining or sticking a knife in what appears to be a success story in the making.

That's similar to what LightSquared thought as well.....

[Floatsflyer]

That's similar to what LightSquared thought as well.....

Maybe so....but your comparison is apples and oranges, not even in the same area code. LightSquared decision was all about the assessment of risk to an existing and vital system. Certainly unrelated in any manner to Icon request and with no onerous implications to users.