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  1. #1

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    Student's First Lesson

    I watched a student's first lesson, was surprised at how it was done.
    He was a 17 year old local high school boy, according to his Mom he has been studying the book and really wants to learn to fly.
    He had a two hour time block.
    The flight was less than 20 minutes. One takeoff, one landing. I don't know what air work if any was done.
    They spent about 1 and a half hours on the preflight and start up. Before they ever untied the plane they were inside with the master on and checking the nav lights. It was in the middle of a sunny day, not a cloud in the sky. But they gave those nav llights a good checkout.
    I don't know if the boy even got to touch the controls.
    I do know that when he came back into the FBO he was not smiling, frankly he looked about like he had just been to the dentist.
    I am not sure, but as he went out the door I think I heard him tell his Mom that the CFI flew the whole time, the student did not get to fly.
    The plane is a old Piper, fixed prop, fixed gear,mechancial flaps, standard engine, standard panel; no glass cockpit or complicated stuff. Almost the same thing I flew 30 years ago when I learned.
    I can't comprhend what items one could find to stretch out a preflight that long on this plane. They were not adding fuel or oil or air in the tires or cleaning the window, just checking things.
    The senior CFI told me this was the way a lesson should be done, that they had to be thorogh because they were liable.
    The actual CFI in the plane is new to this location. I don't know him, but I do know that he is working here because the other location just went out of business. I'll bet those nav lights were working well at the other location, right up unti the time they shut the doors.
    Maybe I am out of date, but it seems to me this isn't the way to market a service or sell a hobby, especially in these tough economic times.
    It is if a customer came into a bar and asked for a cold beer and they first gave him a lecture on how the hops are grown and harvested.
    I think the boy may come back,but I also would not be surprised if he found another hobby, especially with school starting in a few weeks.
    We have another CFI here who did a first lesson/discovery flight with a guy I know who has always been afraid to fly. They had a great sightseeing flight over the area, and came back and did 3 landings. My friend did the last two landings himself , the last one without the CFI even touching the controls. He did not mention the nav lights.
    He was so excited that he is talking about taking lessons, but has a confict with a busy work demand.
    What do other students or CFI s think a first lesson should be?

  2. #2
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Personally, I've flown with several CFIs before deciding on one. Most of the ones I passed over were exactly like the one you described (attention paid to things that folks don't need to know from step 1, not allowed to touch the controls, etc). Congratulations to your local flight school for likely costing the GA community a new member.

  3. #3

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    If the person that is taking the first lesson seems seriously interested, this is what I do:

    First, we meet for about fifteen minutes to introduce ourselves and to discuss how the lesson will go. They are told, from the very start, that we will take about 5-10 minutes to get a weather briefing from a briefer. They are also told that they will be taught how to pre-flight the airplane, and that this will take about 20-30 minutes or so. Then, we will fly for 40 minutes. We also discuss exchange of controls, and that, at 500 feet AGL, they will be flying the plane until I want the controls back (if they're sharp and wind is calm, I may not want them back until we're on the runway). The lesson itself is devoted to the four fundamentals, and I do very little actual flying.

    OK, back to the WX brief and the preflight, because I know some of you are already aghast. I first give the student the number and tell them to listen and try to understand what they're hearing. I reassure them that I'm responsible for the information, but this is a way of getting information that is vital to every flight, and they'll soon learn what they need to know. I then call Flight Service on a speaker phone, explain to the briefer that there's a brand new student listening, and request the briefing. 99% of the time, the briefers are accommodating and slow down and enunciate even more clearly than usual. After the call, I ask the student what they got out of it. You'd be surprised, even if some of the details are wrong, how well they get it. We discuss any areas of misunderstanding and then go to the plane, if the weather isn't a stopper.

    During the preflight, we both do all of the checks, me explaining why we do them. BTW, this includes the nav lights at noon on June 22nd. Why? Well, two reasons: if one is burned out, it's a lot nicer for the night renters to get the thing replaced while the mechanics are on duty (who here has not been aced out of a night flight because of a dead bulb?). Also, if the breaker or some such should open when the switch is flipped, we have a bigger problem, don't we (yes, it's happened to me)? After the preflight, we go fly, obviously. BTW, once we're away from tight quarters, I let them taxi.

    Why do this at the beginning? Well, it's an attempt to pull them into the game as it were. After all, this real pilot stuff we're talking about, so they get to feel a little puffed up at the beginning. Also, I'm trying to get good habits built early on. Doing this stuff from the get-go is a way of doing so. I want WX briefings and preflight actions to be more than learned behavior - I want them to be ingrained. By the way, I do not hide this from the newbie; I spell right out what my motivations are.

    Now, if this sounds onerous, remember it's all in how it's sold. Do it right, and you'll make it an interesting part of the experience. Remember, Tom Sawyer's friends all thought that whitewashing a fence was fun...

    One last thing: I have never, ever lost a student of any age using this technique.
    Last edited by Bob Meder; 08-07-2011 at 09:49 PM. Reason: CRLF's

  4. #4
    rosiejerryrosie's Avatar
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    Bob, I must say that I concur with your approach 100%. When learning something new, a person remembers best what they are told first. Best to learn the right way first than to have to relearn something that was taught wrongly initially. As we all know, most accidents are the result of poor judgement rather than the result of poor mechanical skills. Teahcing good practices from the beginning is the best apporach. Not that a preflight should take an hour and a half. Good prep makes for good flying, and as much of that as possible should be done by the student.
    Cheers,
    Jerry

    NC22375
    65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania

  5. #5

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    Bob, If one of the very first things the CFI and the student focus on is the nav lights on a sunny very day for a noon flight then what does the student concentrate on? What does he learn first? That flight safety if mostly a matter of a small light that you don't use anyway in the daytime? Seems to me that when you walk up to a plane, especially one flown in a flight school, there are 3 real things you want to see. First and foremost, how much fuel is in the plane? On every flight you use and need fuel and that is the one item that changes with every flight. Nav lights, static ports, even tire pressure and oil level are not likely to change much after the previous hour flight. Maybe it is because I have flown across the U S and Canada, and to the Carib, some of it in planes with limited range; that I want the student to be concious of fuel, and oil. Item 2 is to drain the fuel sumps, and 3 is the normal walk around that includes all the hinges pitot cover, control locks and surfaces etc, in other words the things you see on a normal visual inspection.
    Now some CFIs may say that spending I 1/2 hours on preflight is good, affter all the student needs to know how to do it, and soon he will be doing it solo. But he also needs to know how to do weight and balance, would you spend the majority of the first lesson having him learn and calculate that also?
    There has to be some common sense, some sense of proportion.
    What are the risks of a first flight? There is not really much danger of crashing, the record with the CFI discovevery flight is very good. Young Eagles has done over I 1/2 million and I think there has been only one fatality last time I heard.
    The other risk is that the student get some bad habits. To me, being casual about the fuel on board is one of these, and giving equal importance to a light you are not going to use with fuel is silly.
    But really THE BIG RISK of a first flight, Discovery or lesson is that the student is bored and won't come back or tell his friends how much fun and how easy it is.
    A lot of flight school have closed over the years, a lot of CFIs out of a job or at best a subsistence living. Used to be most every airport and most FBOs had a flight school. Not anymore. Why did they fail? Sure wasn't because a nav light was not given enough attention on a CAVU day. The real risk is the CFI and school going out of business because their marketing and people skills are bad. Of course the economy and cost of flying are part of it , maybe the biggest part.
    By the way, I think your brief exposure of the student to the weather is good. I am not sure how much he learns from that , but at least he gets the idea there is one. Before solo and final test is the time to go deeper into this subject which for me is most of what I need for a safe outlook.
    Finally, you and I and I and CFI s know the student CAN LEARN, CAN become a pilot. BUT THE FIRST TIME STUDENT DOES NOT KNOW THAT. In fact he may have some big doubts,and if the first lesson does not leave him with some positive feeling he may not continue. I think I have read 40% of students drop out, is that about the facts?

  6. #6
    Dana's Avatar
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    Jeez, I think my first CFI handed me the controls before we climbed through 100'... and didn't take them again except to show me some things, stalls and stuff, until just before the landing flare. I don't remember doing much beyond the usual 10 minute preflight, either.

    I've never even owned a plane with navigation lights...

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Bob, If one of the very first things the CFI and the student focus on is the nav lights on a sunny very day for a noon flight then what does the student concentrate on? What does he learn first? That flight safety if mostly a matter of a small light that you don't use anyway in the daytime? Seems to me that when you walk up to a plane, especially one flown in a flight school, there are 3 real things you want to see. First and foremost, how much fuel is in the plane? On every flight you use and need fuel and that is the one item that changes with every flight. Nav lights, static ports, even tire pressure and oil level are not likely to change much after the previous hour flight. Maybe it is because I have flown across the U S and Canada, and to the Carib, some of it in planes with limited range; that I want the student to be concious of fuel, and oil. Item 2 is to drain the fuel sumps, and 3 is the normal walk around that includes all the hinges pitot cover, control locks and surfaces etc, in other words the things you see on a normal visual inspection.Now some CFIs may say that spending I 1/2 hours on preflight is good, affter all the student needs to know how to do it, and soon he will be doing it solo. But he also needs to know how to do weight and balance, would you spend the majority of the first lesson having him learn and calculate that also?There has to be some common sense, some sense of proportion.What are the risks of a first flight? There is not really much danger of crashing, the record with the CFI discovevery flight is very good. Young Eagles has done over I 1/2 million and I think there has been only one fatality last time I heard.The other risk is that the student get some bad habits. To me, being casual about the fuel on board is one of these, and giving equal importance to a light you are not going to use with fuel is silly.But really THE BIG RISK of a first flight, Discovery or lesson is that the student is bored and won't come back or tell his friends how much fun and how easy it is.A lot of flight school have closed over the years, a lot of CFIs out of a job or at best a subsistence living. Used to be most every airport and most FBOs had a flight school. Not anymore. Why did they fail? Sure wasn't because a nav light was not given enough attention on a CAVU day. The real risk is the CFI and school going out of business because their marketing and people skills are bad. Of course the economy and cost of flying are part of it , maybe the biggest part. By the way, I think your brief exposure of the student to the weather is good. I am not sure how much he learns from that , but at least he gets the idea there is one. Before solo and final test is the time to go deeper into this subject which for me is most of what I need for a safe outlook. Finally, you and I and I and CFI s know the student CAN LEARN, CAN become a pilot. BUT THE FIRST TIME STUDENT DOES NOT KNOW THAT. In fact he may have some big doubts,and if the first lesson does not leave him with some positive feeling he may not continue. I think I have read 40% of students drop out, is that about the facts?
    I've read your post, really thought about it and...

    [Shatner voice]I'm not changing a thing.[/Shatner voice]

    OK, I need to clarify a bit, obviously. I'm not talking about a 90 minute preflight. That's just crazy. Last night, I gave a CFI candidate his first CFI lesson. Part of his lesson was to "teach" me how to preflight an Arrow. Even with me interrupting to coach or play "dumb student", it only took 25 minutes. That included checking the lights, BTW.

    As I stated before, it's all about how it's "sold". Read Greg Brown's The Savvy Flight Instructor: most CFI's don't realize the importance of allowing their enthusiasm to shine through. Done correctly, this stuff is all way cool, not a drag. So, why introduce it early? Well, to counter your argument, to show them that, y'know, this flying stuff ain't really that hard, while showing the importance of doing it right the first time every time. They can be pilots!

    To pick on what is clearly a sore point with you: Sure, you can't see the lights during the day, and I get mad at people that burn them unnecessarily during the day. However, as I said, it's actually a consideration for other renters to check them so they can be addressed if there is a dead bulb. Besides, it is an airworthiness issue - if the lights don't work correctly, why don't they work correctly? Could be a dead bulb. I've also had to deal with a dead short in the nav lights.

    The fact is that as someone that has been a 141 check airman and does a lot of flight reviews, there are a lot of pilots out there that don't understand airworthiness issues, only check the ATIS or AWOS before flying, don't understand the AD's for their own airplanes, etc. I lay this squarely on the shoulders of CFI's that don't teach good habits from the start.

    I'm not perfect by a long shot, and I'm still learning every day, but we can and should do better. The first lesson, which is supposed to be a learning experience, by it's very nature, is a darned good place to start.
    Last edited by Bob Meder; 08-09-2011 at 12:15 PM. Reason: CRLF's, CRLF's, CRLF's...

  8. #8
    Barnstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    But really THE BIG RISK of a first flight, Discovery or lesson is that the student is bored and won't come back or tell his friends how much fun and how easy it is.
    A lot of flight school have closed over the years, a lot of CFIs out of a job or at best a subsistence living. Used to be most every airport and most FBOs had a flight school. Not anymore. Why did they fail? Sure wasn't because a nav light was not given enough attention on a CAVU day. The real risk is the CFI and school going out of business because their marketing and people skills are bad. Of course the economy and cost of flying are part of it , maybe the biggest part. ....I think I have read 40% of students drop out, is that about the facts?
    Bill THANK YOU!

    This is a GREAT topic!

    My wife was interested in flying and NEARLY GOT TALKED OUT OF BEING A PILOT BY THE WAY SHE WAS TREATED SHOPPING FOR LESSONS!

    Points:

    1. Drop out rate. 40%? No try over 70% according to figures quoted at AirVenture. The SAFE "fix the industry and training" committees think the fatality/accident rate is causing the problem. NOPE. The people that sign up and drop out already know that issue. The issue is POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE BY CFI's and training centers!

    2. Cart before the horse. How many people teach children to change the oil and plugs before a RIDE in a car? How many people have gone to buy a new or used car and had the sales person start out by showing you how to check the oil level and tire pressure? Sure they will LET you if you are interested but 99.9% you take the thing for a couple of spins around the block first.

    3. Good Instructor / Bad Instructor. I do advanced technical training (non aero) for a living. After EACH class the students evaluate me on my performance. If my performance falls below acceptable levels I AM OUT OF A JOB. Where do CFI's get honest anonymous feedback on their performance from the flight training students?? If students drop out on a CFI or business falls off, from what I have seen they just blame it on something else.

    4. The Learning Instructor. How do instructors know what they are doing right and wrong? Why did the student's that did not complete training REALLY drop out? Unless there are anonymous exit interviews there is no way for instructors to get important feedback on their own training styles and techniques and therefore no way to improve or correct weaknesses from the customers point of view.

    .
    Last edited by Barnstorm; 11-10-2011 at 02:21 PM.
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  9. #9
    "What do other students or CFI s think a first lesson should be?" I think Bob Miller's Flight Training does it right. Check out "Over the Airwaves". You can't learn if you are not interested. A teacher teaches what he is paid to teach. An instructor teaches what the student wants to learn. We are flight instructors and the student wants to fly, not inspect the airplane. Inspection is primarily a maintenance function and secondarily a pilot function as necessary for safety of flight. On the first flight the CFI is responsable for safety of flight. He should be instructing the student on the principles and proceedures for flight. He should mention that the pilot is the final authority to determine the the aircraft is airworthy and that he has accomplished that task. He may then ask if the student would like more details as to how that is accomplished or if he is ready to go for a flight.

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