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Thread: Accident Report: Incredible

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
    Careless and reckless comes to mind.
    Good luck. Pilot pulls out AC 00-6A and references the section on how to penetrate a thunderstorm, located in the "Do's and Don'ts of Thunderstorm Flying" section and it's game over. Difficult to establish a violation when the pilot is following FAA guidance.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Good luck. Pilot pulls out AC 00-6A and references the section on how to penetrate a thunderstorm, located in the "Do's and Don'ts of Thunderstorm Flying" section and it's game over. Difficult to establish a violation when the pilot is following FAA guidance.
    Difficult to impose a penalty when he's dead, too...

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Good luck. Pilot pulls out AC 00-6A and references the section on how to penetrate a thunderstorm, located in the "Do's and Don'ts of Thunderstorm Flying" section and it's game over. Difficult to establish a violation when the pilot is following FAA guidance.
    Cute, but that section begins with how it's important to avoid flying through a thunderstorm. The tips on flying through one begin with this phrase: "If you cannot avoid penetrating a thunderstorm, the following are some Do's Before entering the storm:". Emphasis located right in the text. I'm pretty sure "I'm a doctor with a Bonanza and need to make it to my meeting" does not count as "cannot avoid penetrating a thunderstorm".
    Last edited by Flyfalcons; 07-20-2012 at 09:04 AM.
    Ryan Winslow
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  4. #24
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    This is disgusting. Did this pilot not have any friends? Someone to sit him down over coffee after the first or second incident and ask "what were you thinking?"
    Some people just will not listen. A perfect example was the Dan Lloyd RV-10 fiasco. Myself and numerous other folks told him to take it easy and to correct a laundry list of issues but he refused and he paid for it.

    If he were a military or commercial pilot, or a member of a flying club, he would not have got past his peer group without someone calling him on his judgement.
    Flying club? Maybe? Commercial pilot? Probably. The military? I hate to show my near complete lack of confidence in the leadership of the Air Force (thanks to what I witnessed and heard first hand while serving in that branch) but I have two words for you: Bud Holland. If that didn't change the attitude of commanders about grounding pilots who perform stupid or risky flying maneuvers, nothing will, but yet they don't appear to have learned anything as judged by the fact that the AF commanders still love to see steeply banked slow passes down the flight line at airshows because of the "WOAH!" factor from the crowd (Elmendorf C-17 airshow practice crash anyone?).

    For those of you not familiar with who Bud Holland is or why he's an example of why being a "skilled" pilot and being a "good" pilot are often not the same thing, I offer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUEhNKBi4DY
    ...and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgJl7b9bQH0

    If anyone sees a bad actor like this, don't hold back.
    I find that handing an autopsy report release form for our research to a stupid pilot's passengers and explaining why I am handing them out to be signed tends to a good way to gut check bad pilots. I stopped a guy at KHUF from taking off in freezing drizzle in a 172 a few years back. He told me to mind my own business and I proceeded to talk to the lady who was loading her bags into the plane. After pointing out that they would be lucky to make it out of the county before they would both be dead, she proceeded to question him and could tell he was trying to weasel his way out of admitting that he had made a bad mistake. He was pissed at me at the time (and I can't say I blame him to be honest) but before they left the next day in good weather, he and his wife treated me to lunch and he apologized for cussing at me and not wanting to listen.

    Good luck. Pilot pulls out AC 00-6A and references the section on how to penetrate a thunderstorm, located in the "Do's and Don'ts of Thunderstorm Flying" section and it's game over. Difficult to establish a violation when the pilot is following FAA guidance.
    Yeah, but if you manage to live through it, you're going to have a lot of questions to answer about why you allowed yourself to get into a situation where you had not choice but to penetrate a convective cell. It's a violation but just of the broader regulations against actively hazarding your aircraft. We had a guy near here who survived doing just that and was ratted out by someone. He tried that defense and ended up losing the argument and his ability to fly.
    Last edited by steveinindy; 07-21-2012 at 05:33 PM.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
    The tips on flying through one begin with this phrase: "If you cannot avoid penetrating a thunderstorm, the following are some Do's Before entering the storm:"
    So I see you agree, the act in itself is not illegal. I think the accident pilot in this case has proven one is free to fly in whatever weather he chooses.

  6. #26
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    I think the accident pilot in this case has proven one is free to fly in whatever weather he chooses.
    He died so I wouldn't really view that as a valid argument. As for the other cases where he did it before, it sounded like anyone didn't rat him out to the FAA.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    So I see you agree, the act in itself is not illegal. I think the accident pilot in this case has proven one is free to fly in whatever weather he chooses.
    Flying through a thunderstorm goes against the very recommendations in the AC you quoted. Because destroying your aircraft in flight causes a hazard to people and property below, it is careless and reckless, period. 709 rides have been given for much less.
    Last edited by Flyfalcons; 07-22-2012 at 11:23 AM.
    Ryan Winslow
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  8. #28

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    The cogent point is not if such a flight might be legal, but if it is really unsafe you don't even get to the legal part.
    It is not illegal to walk around in West Texas rattlesnake county in shorts and barefoot, or in some states to ride a motorcycle on the highway without a helmet or to smoke cigarettes, or maybe do solo acro without a parachute,but one would be nuts to do these..
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 07-22-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
    Flying through a thunderstorm goes against the very recommendations in the AC you quoted. Because destroying your aircraft in flight causes a hazard to people and property below, it is careless and reckless, period. 709 rides have been given for much less.
    Research enforcement actions, case law, legal opinions and precedence for evidence to support your claim and you'll come up empty. The accident pilot did nothing illegal. May not be smart but it is definitely not illegal. Thankfully, the regulations are not written for the lowest common denominator.
    Last edited by martymayes; 07-22-2012 at 09:59 PM.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    The cogent point is not if such a flight might be legal, but if it is really unsafe you don't even get to the legal part.
    Correct, and lack of understanding on the part of one or two pilots doesn't make it illegal for everyone. Flying in severe weather can be planned and executed with less risk than a 50 hr pilot faces when landing with a crosswind.

    The same is true for flying in mountains. It's legal and it can be safe or unsafe, depending on the how the pilot manages the risks.

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