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Thread: Accident Report: Incredible

  1. #11

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    My "personal minimums" is 40 miles just to be on the safe side (50 miles if I'm relying on satellite weather) and I don't hesitate to land short of my original destination since I figure what's another takeoff and landing.
    Same here. But that's for driving my F-150 truck, not flying!
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  2. #12

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    I assume this was another case of a pilot who thought that he just had to get there right away, regardless of conditions or risk.

    Some years ago I was talking to Gregg Fieth (sp), former NTSB accident investigator who lives in Denver and whom you may have seen on tv on several interviews.
    We were taking about accidents and their investigation.
    Gregg commented that "We usually do our investigation in good weather." I was surprised and asked him what he meant since weather is the number one cause of accidents for most planes. He said by the time an accident happens, often in the afternoon, and the NTSB is called to come in and they travel to the site; it is often the next morning when they arrive. AND THE WEATHER IS OFTEN GOOD VFR BY THEN.
    SO OFTEN, NOT ALWAYS IF YOU CAN WAIT A DAY , THE BAD WEATHER MAY PASS BY OR DISAPATE, AND THE RISK GOES AWAY.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 07-17-2012 at 08:09 AM.

  3. #13
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Gregg commented that "We usually do our investigation in good weather." I was surprised and asked him what he meant since weather is the number one cause of accidents for most planes. He said by the time an accident happens, often in the afternoon, and the NTSB is called to come in and they travel to the site; it is often the next morning when they arrive. AND THE WEATHER IS OFTEN GOOD VFR BY THEN.
    SO OFTEN, NOT ALWAYS IF YOU CAN WAIT A DAY , THE BAD WEATHER MAY PASS BY OR DISAPATE, AND THE RISK GOES AWAY.
    Greg notably commented that investigators (and other pilots) have to be careful trying to "armchair quarterback" because of that fact. What seems like a logical response to an emergency on a nice sunny day or in your office may never cross one's mind when put in a situation with fifty things happening at once and your senses playing tricks on you, etc. He's a very interesting guy to talk to and a very nice guy as well.

    This crash though is one that leaves no doubt that it was one of the stupidest mistakes possible. Intentionally launching into convective weather is an inexcusable offense and I actually remember having a debate with a coroner that I know quite well and respect a great deal who wanted to classify such a crash as a suicide because "No one in their right mind would fly into that. He had to be trying to kill himself". He backed off on that once I explained that it wasn't likely intentional suicide but rather just hubris or good ol' fashioned stupidity. Still, walking through a field and helping extricate the pilot's body from that plane sticks with me and it's one of those events that will always be in the back of my mind whenever I'm checking the weather before a flight.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  4. #14

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    This is not pilot error, this is pilot EGO! If you total an aircraft twice, clearly you have a learning disability. We've all met this personality at one time or another, the guy who always does things his way and has to be first all the time. Ignoring the obvious and throwing out 100 years of knowledge regarding flying safety is beyond stupid, he did actually have a license and an instrument rating, he couldn't get that without knowing the basics. We had a thread awhile back focused on the traits of a good pilot, knowing when put the macho attitude aside and stay on the ground is an outstanding trait! This is the kind of thing that puts GA in a bad light.

    Joe

  5. #15

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    This is disgusting. Did this pilot not have any friends? Someone to sit him down over coffee after the first or second incident and ask "what were you thinking?" Where was his insurance company. And for crying out loud, where was the FSDO? Surely, the repair station didn't just accept his checks for "repairs for ordinary wear and tear" without SDRs or even a phone call to the FSDO.

    If he were a military or commercial pilot, or a member of a flying club, he would not have got past his peer group without someone calling him on his judgement.

    Years ago, I buttonholded one guy, got a sneer for my trouble, then ratted him out to the FBO. He still killed himself and his passenger couple of weeks latter.If anyone sees a bad actor like this, don't hold back.

    Bob

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Dingley View Post
    Years ago, I buttonholded one guy, got a sneer for my trouble, then ratted him out to the FBO. He still killed himself and his passenger couple of weeks latter.If anyone sees a bad actor like this, don't hold back.
    Bob
    Which just points out that neither the pilot community nor the FAA has an effective way to deal with these pilots. There is currently no mechanism for stopping these maniacs. I just wish there was a way to make them do it by themselves and not take the innocent with them. I personally don't object to suicide, but taking others with you is murder in my book.
    Bill

  7. #17

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    Trashing perfectly good airplanes in hazardous weather is not against any regs that I'm aware of. Not sure what the feds are supposed to do about it. Several times every year professional pilots and aircrews fly into weather that results in aircraft damage, hull losses and/or fatalities. Should the FAA and pilot community have a mechanism to deal with these pilots as well?

    The judgement part doesn't surprise me at all. That's why suggesting to someone to use good judgement or common sense can be bad advice. What they think is "good" or "common" might be a long way from the norm.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    The June issue of PILOT, the AOPA magazine, free to all members, contains a astonishing accident report.
    When I first saw this, I thought you were mistaken on the source as I had glossed over Mac's verison of the same article in EAA's Sport Aviation June 2012 issue. I went to the AOPA online edition and sure enough, the same accident is reviewed in the June issue. I guess that clears up any doubt about EAA converting Sport Aviation into a facsimile of AOPA Pilot. Certainly there is enough going on in aviation that two publications should not have to duplicate articles? Wow, this is as sad as the accident itself.

  9. #19
    Mike Switzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    When I first saw this, I thought you were mistaken on the source as I had glossed over Mac's verison of the same article in EAA's Sport Aviation June 2012 issue. I went to the AOPA online edition and sure enough, the same accident is reviewed in the June issue. I guess that clears up any doubt about EAA converting Sport Aviation into a facsimile of AOPA Pilot. Certainly there is enough going on in aviation that two publications should not have to duplicate articles? Wow, this is as sad as the accident itself.
    What I find interesting is that Flying magazine just had an article about a fatal test flight of a homebuilt. I'm waiting for it to be available on their website so we can discuss it here in more detail.

  10. #20
    Flyfalcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Trashing perfectly good airplanes in hazardous weather is not against any regs that I'm aware of. Not sure what the feds are supposed to do about it. Several times every year professional pilots and aircrews fly into weather that results in aircraft damage, hull losses and/or fatalities. Should the FAA and pilot community have a mechanism to deal with these pilots as well?

    The judgement part doesn't surprise me at all. That's why suggesting to someone to use good judgement or common sense can be bad advice. What they think is "good" or "common" might be a long way from the norm.
    Careless and reckless comes to mind.
    Ryan Winslow
    EAA 525529
    Stinson 108-1 "Big Red", RV-7 under construction

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