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Thread: Accident Report: Incredible

  1. #31
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Research enforcement actions, case law, legal opinions and precedence for evidence to support your claim and you'll come up empty.
    Or we could try an alternate explanation: because those who are lucky enough to live through the ordeal aren't usually stupid enough to go blabbing about it and those who are dead aren't normally prosecuted for obviously reasons?

    The accident pilot did nothing illegal.
    Except violate the regulations against purposefully or negligently hazarding ones aircraft? Do a search for reckless flying and you'll find plenty of cases of people being charged for doing stupid things with aircraft at the federal, state and local level. This jerk-off comes to mind: http://www.smmirror.com/articles/New...robation/34992 Flying headlong into a thunderstorm itself might not be specifically illegal but the sort of flying most rational folks would lump it into is enough to get one's license yanked and apparently land your butt in jail. That is, as mentioned before, you're lucky enough to escape such brazen stupidity with your life. It doesn't have to be specifically spelled out because only the "lowest denominator" would fail to realize that a broad "don't do things that endanger yourself, your aircraft or anyone on the ground" regulation (for example FAR Part 91.13) wouldn't apply to flying into known convective activity in an airplane that is most of the time going to break if you do so. Since Part 91.13 states endangering others specifically, I will point out that the case involved the pilot flying with a passenger on board (refer to http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...26X35112&key=1 ). A reasonable person would look at a flight through a convective cell or line and go "Yup, that's willfully endangering the life of another person" and ergo, violation of Part 91.13 and probably several other subsections of the FAR as well.

    Flying in severe weather can be planned and executed with less risk than a 50 hr pilot faces when landing with a crosswind.

    The bigger question is "Why would you do it in the first place?".
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  2. #32

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    Marty, I think your post takes the wrong view. You seem to think that the key is the pilot and how he "manages the risk". You use mountain flying as a parrelel. I live in the mountains, at 8000 ft and have been flying there for 30 years. Yes, there are some things I know as a pilot familar with the area, and flying a turbo airplane, which I can do whereas a flatland pilot in a 172 has little or no chance.
    But, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE WAY TO MANAGE RISK IS NOT TO GO THAT DAY OR THAT ROUTE.
    I do a seminar sometimes on Mt Flying at Osh and Sun N Fun, and one big point I try to make is some days just stay home or in the motel.

    I think repeatedly flying into areas where there is a convective sigmet for thunderstorms and front lines, (not even a forecast, but actual conditions) is like hanging around the parking lot when the bars and strip clubs close at 2 am. Trouble is likely to find you sooner or later.

    And the big law I am most concerned about it the law of gravity, not some FAR.

    A 50 hours pilot should already have his ppl and certainly know how to land in a moderate crosswind, but even if he makes a mistake the plane is unlikely to break up and the crosswind is unlikely to be fatal.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 07-23-2012 at 10:20 AM.

  3. #33
    Flyfalcons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    Research enforcement actions, case law, legal opinions and precedence for evidence to support your claim and you'll come up empty. The accident pilot did nothing illegal. May not be smart but it is definitely not illegal. Thankfully, the regulations are not written for the lowest common denominator.
    You sound like you look for any excuse to make stupid decisions while flying - see you in the statistics someday.
    Ryan Winslow
    EAA 525529
    Stinson 108-1 "Big Red", RV-7 under construction

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Marty, I think your post takes the wrong view. You seem to think that the key is the pilot and how he "manages the risk". You use mountain flying as a parrelel. I live in the mountains, at 8000 ft and have been flying there for 30 years. Yes, there are some things I know as a pilot familar with the area, and flying a turbo airplane, which I can do whereas a flatland pilot in a 172 has little or no chance.
    Yup, I could get in trouble in a hurry in the mountains. That's why you won't catch me doing it without some training. But you don't see me ranting that it's illegal just because I have no experience doing it. I flew on the Gulf coast 25 yrs and thunderstorms are a daily thing. I'm familiar with the situation and I can fly with minimal risk where a pilot from say AZ might get find himself in serious trouble.

    Anyone who thinks they can tattle on a pilot to the FAA, who will in turn stop the pilot from flying in bad weather should make the call. I think they will be disappointed with the response.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
    You sound like you look for any excuse to make stupid decisions while flying - see you in the statistics someday.
    I don't need an "excuse" to make bad decisions, they come naturally. I'm luck to be alive!!

  6. #36

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    I appreciate and respect the opinions and experiences that folks have posted on this subject. I've had a few moments myself. May I share a few T'storm experiences of others.
    I was wrapped up in the soaring scene when I was a military pilot in Texas. One day, a story popped up on the field about a young member of a well known soaring club not far away. It seems that the young man launched in a Schweitzer 1-26. It wasn't long before he found himself going up fast in a developing CB. He may or may not intended to do this. But the lucky kid landed later in some distress. His lips and fingernails were blue from either hypoxia or hypothermia. Or both. He walked like a zombie. He was wearing a thin cotton shirt. His face was cut and bleeding from ice crystals blowing on him from the gasper on the panel. All leading edges had the paint removed by hail. The wings required reskinning for wrinkles. I wish that I could have seen it. He was told that " when you catch your breath, leave!"
    A year or two later, I saw an item in the SSA's magazine that a gent set the altitude record for the British Isles by intentionaly entering a CB. He was ready for it with oxygen, heated suit and electric flight instruments. He landed OK after making it up to the mid-thirtys.
    I was reading the Boy Scout magazine, Boy's Life years ago and an article about a thunderstorm research program fired me up. They routinely flew into T'storms in an instrumented Schweitzer.
    I always valued the onboard radar equipment when I found myself around T'storms. Much better than Nexrad. I found squall lines to be the nastiest. I only fly on good days since I retired.
    Bob

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