View Poll Results: Do you feel that a low-end airplane could be sold for twice that of a low-end car?

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Thread: The good 'ole days

  1. #11
    rosiejerryrosie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jf1450 View Post
    As an A&P I cant comprehend a 3 hour annual on *any* airplane. A day minimum assuming normal servicing and nothing wrong.
    As an A&P, what do you suspect my A&P is missing? I do have everything opened up for him before he arrives....
    Cheers,
    Jerry

    NC22375
    65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmacht View Post
    Annuals can be inexpensive when everything goes right. It isn't the cost of the annual itself that is the problem. It is what can be found during the annual that scares me off from buying a certified plane. It is just a huge unknown expense each year.

    Keith
    Keith:

    The unknowns that increase the $$ involved are common to both experimental and certified planes. If your engine needs work, it needs work. It will cost you $$ in any case. My point is the best thing an owner can do to save $$ and to learn about your plane is to become involved with the annual as much as possible. This involvement blurs the difference between experimental and certified in my opinion.
    As I mention above, I’ve got a C172, and being a certified plane, that allows me to do Angel Flights for example. My recent annual cost just under $1000 to do. That included some extra work beyond the annual. Even with me doing all the grunt work, that’s a good deal. I won’t slam certified planes over this, there are other reasons beyond servicing costs that drive the desire to go the experimental route.

    Larry

  3. #13

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    You might find this GAMA chart of interest.

    Name:  Cost of Certification.jpg
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    It is estimated that certification accounts for 15% of the cost of an aircraft. Liability is 35%. Economies of Scale is about 50%. So if you could make any changes to those; they might bring the cost of aircraft back down to the inflation curve.

  4. #14

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    your premise of "twice the price of a new car" might not be useful, although inflation would affect the price change of both equally. but there was a big demand for new cars in '46 because of the dearth of late-model used cars and the conversion of factories from war production to car production. there was no shortage of "cubs" since the conversion basically required nothing but a different paint color and there was already a glut of surplus aircraft. supply vs demand might have had more to do with it than anything else?

    look at the price of a kit plane (at least 51% left to finish, right?) vs the cost of a new car. the kit, the panel, and the firewall forward are more than twice the price of an economy car. now insert taxes, liability insurance, etcetcetc AND 49% more labor. it's obvious nobody can profitably produce 3000 flyable aircraft a year for $30k each. and now you know why DOD pays so much for high-tech aircraft. but that's another story.

  5. #15

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    These posts have surprised me, over half actually recognize economic factors that reflect the real world. I was expecting a mob reaction to charge head long into "wishful" thinking. Those who commented on used aircraft make a case, but the original proposition of this thread is a comparison between new aircraft and new cars. Lots of good comments on current operating costs and the "annual". Having done some "assisting" for the A&P on the annual I would highly recommend it for any pilot. You not only save a few dollars but you learn a lot about the annual process and your airplane. Ylinen, Nice Chart!

    Joe

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkorona View Post
    Keith:

    The unknowns that increase the $$ involved are common to both experimental and certified planes. If your engine needs work, it needs work. It will cost you $$ in any case.
    Larry
    Not true at all. It is true that both types of aircraft have unknown costs but they are not relative to each other. If the door latch on your cessna breaks you have to go buy a certified replacement at a very high price and pay an A&P $80 an hour to install it. If it breaks on your experimental you can go ahead and just fabricate a new one out of a $2 piece of metal and put it in yourself. The same goes for the engine. If something wears or breaks on your cessna you have to pay someone to pull the engine, send it to a certified overhaul shop and then pay for someone to re-install it. In the experimental world you are free to go out and get the knowledge on how to overhaul and engine and do all the work yourself saving a large sum of money.

    You can treat an experimental like a certified aircraft if you so choose to. There is nothing saying that someone not mechanically inclined can't go and pay an A&P to do all the work on their plane. If they did then yes, the costs would be similar. The real advantage of the experimental world comes in the ability to go out and gain the knowledge and have the ability to do the work yourself.


    Keith

  7. #17

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    Aug 2011
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    I'm going to rattle cages here but I am a smug Canadian.

    It's called Owner Maintenance, or O/M and it allows me the owner to maintain and sign off EVERYTHING on my Grumman Cheetah.
    Supposedly I reduced the value by putting it in this category but like the stock market I only lose if I sell which I have no intention of, someday my kids can do whatever they want.
    Lobby your gov't or move to Canada. It is absoutely the way to go. I still get an engineer, if I can find one I trust, to work on it but they love it as they don't have to watch over their shoulder.
    Of course it only applies to fixed gear fixed pitch a/c so you Bonanza guys are out of luck.
    So, we may have socialized medicine but we can fly.

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