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Thread: Visiting Non US citizens flying 103 in the USA

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jedi View Post
    I was refering to the CFI and other employee training as you suggested. You will be training yourself and therefore are the instructor as well as the student. The certificate should indicate to any out of place TSA agents that you know more about what you are doing than he might and he would acept your story that the student authorization is not required.
    Except there is no training requirement for ultralights - unless one is going to instruct OTHER pilots.

    Any ole Joe with cash in his pocket can buy an ultralight, crank it up, and take to the air with it after lunch, even if he was just told they existed at breakfast.

    What's causing a huge zzzzttt sound to the wiring of our friends overseas is how absolutely permissive our aviation system is. That which isn't specifically prohibited is allowed....and very little is specifically prohibited. Want to fly cross country and not tell anyone? Go ahead - flight plans are optional. Stick to non-controlled airfields and never talk to anyone in the government at all if that's your wish.

    The odds of getting anyone in the government to issue a letter saying there isn't a rule prohibiting something are slim to non-existent. It's like getting Fish and Game to go on record saying it's okay to perform taxidermy on road killed squirrels; they won't do it because there's nothing in the laws or regulations that say one can't.

    You'd be better off talking to ultralight groups on your end for clarification, as the average clerk couldn't be bothered. I'd avoid talking to an FDSO - if they give an opinion that doesn't match the regulation it's not binding! While ours down here is really dilligent, I've heard of some that will make an opinion rather than give an informed response.

    Citizenship requirements and the subsequent hoops for non-citizens are listed quite clearly in the regulations for aircraft where they apply - and none are listed for ultralights.

    Where are all these errant TSA guys we need to worry about? Hell, where are the FAA guys that are alledgely stifling general aviation with irresponsible over-enforcement of the rules? Unless one is attempting to fly an ultralight in D.C. good luck in finding anybody from the government that cares unless someone dies or there's a fire.

    The reason there's no stress over ultralights in our post-9/11 world is that some guy with a five gallon gas tank and the potential of carrying literally tens of pounds of explosives at speeds of up to forty miles an hour in light winds has been deemed as not a high priority risk.

    The wag who is nay-saying can't be mollified; no letter or proof of correspondence is going to satisfy.
    Last edited by Frank Giger; 06-02-2012 at 04:37 AM.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    Except there is no training requirement for ultralights - unless one is going to instruct OTHER pilots.

    Any ole Joe with cash in his pocket can buy an ultralight, crank it up, and take to the air with it after lunch, even if he was just told they existed at breakfast.

    What's causing a huge zzzzttt sound to the wiring of our friends overseas is how absolutely permissive our aviation system is. That which isn't specifically prohibited is allowed....and very little is specifically prohibited. Want to fly cross country and not tell anyone? Go ahead - flight plans are optional. Stick to non-controlled airfields and never talk to anyone in the government at all if that's your wish.

    The odds of getting anyone in the government to issue a letter saying there isn't a rule prohibiting something are slim to non-existent. It's like getting Fish and Game to go on record saying it's okay to perform taxidermy on road killed squirrels; they won't do it because there's nothing in the laws or regulations that say one can't.

    You'd be better off talking to ultralight groups on your end for clarification, as the average clerk couldn't be bothered. I'd avoid talking to an FDSO - if they give an opinion that doesn't match the regulation it's not binding! While ours down here is really dilligent, I've heard of some that will make an opinion rather than give an informed response.

    Citizenship requirements and the subsequent hoops for non-citizens are listed quite clearly in the regulations for aircraft where they apply - and none are listed for ultralights.

    Where are all these errant TSA guys we need to worry about? Hell, where are the FAA guys that are alledgely stifling general aviation with irresponsible over-enforcement of the rules? Unless one is attempting to fly an ultralight in D.C. good luck in finding anybody from the government that cares unless someone dies or there's a fire.

    The reason there's no stress over ultralights in our post-9/11 world is that some guy with a five gallon gas tank and the potential of carrying literally tens of pounds of explosives at speeds of up to forty miles an hour in light winds has been deemed as not a high priority risk.

    The wag who is nay-saying can't be mollified; no letter or proof of correspondence is going to satisfy.

    Great post. I agree.

  3. #23

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    Update

    Quote Originally Posted by belgianbuzzer View Post
    Why ask? Just come and fly. Who cares? It would be different for flying a rented GA aircraft: the rental FBO may ask a few questions ... maybe. Asking questions from any entity or burocrats is looking for trouble. Who would really care if you fly an ultralight? And BTW, TSA rules only apply for schooling and certainly not for ultralights. But don't even ask anybody unless you are looking for and want trouble. Come, fly and keep your mouth shut.
    Let me clear this up a little. I believe that in the USA a policy exists under the military, generally referred to as: "don't ask, dont tell". That's what is 100% applicable here.

  4. #24

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    It's not the TSA that worries me it's event's like this that would freak me out.
    http://www.murthalawfirm.com/mother-...action-airport

  5. #25
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    Goons

    YAIRS Ozzie, but we have those goons at some airports here in OZ too. Give a man a gun and uniform and you have the basis for the Gestapo. SOME of the chaps here in AUSSIE, in our equivalent to their TSA are NEARLY as bad as that poor lady suffered.

    I liked the reply in that post that said the goons should be sued personally.

    At little Proserpine recently a Motorglider pilot (with the security ASIC dangling 'round his neck) was bailed by a local security goon and when the pilot grinned and kept walking GOON DROPPED INTO "THE CROUCH"! Give a man a . . . . . .

    Go fly and have fun at Osh, but I would just play in the circuit there, that would still be an adventure, and BIG ROD wouldn't let anything mar your fun at OSH. If you are looking for someone to lend you a machine, I'll bet this forum would produce some. Yanks are like that I've found, we will miss going this year, so have some fun for us, we had a ball last year.

    THANK YOU ALL,
    THOSE WHO ATTENDED IN 2011, IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AS GREAT IF YOU WEREN'T THERE.

    Doug & Lisha BELBIN
    www.yippyio.net Check the blog on OSH
    Last edited by douglish; 06-05-2012 at 08:18 PM.

  6. #26

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    I can't make this year, but i had a great time last year and in '08. Next year i plan to spend three months, the max i can stay at one time.
    So have nearly a year to work out how to get a Lazair, probably buy and sell back or build one of Dale's new 'E' Lazairs and bring it home, and where to start the trip from.
    Maybe others would be interested in joining me. Yes the best people i have ever met are EAAers.

    I lived at Airlie Beach for ten years so not surprisedat what happens at Proserpine.
    Last edited by Ozzie; 06-06-2012 at 02:40 AM.

  7. #27

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    Jan 2012
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    Enough BS how about real answers. TSA web site for FAQ https://www.flightschoolcandidates.g...e=c&section=FQ says:
    "Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program? Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:
    • They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA certificate or type rating; and/or
    • They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating whether in the U.S. or abroad.
    (NOTE-Certain exemptions to AFSP published in 2004 and 2005 are still in effect. To view those exemptions, please see When is a flight student exempt from the TSA security threat assessment? in the Candidate Frequently Asked Questions section.) "
    Following the link to the exemptions one finds: "When is a flight student exempt from the TSA security threat assessment?
    There are currently six exemptions to the required TSA security threat assessment:”
    The sixth unnumbered reason is listed as:
    " Ultralight Aircraft - Flight training in the operation of airships, balloons, and gliders are exempted from the TSA security threat assessment. This clarification is available at TSA-2004-19147-0324.pdf” Which I believe says that Ultralight Aircraft are exempt, along with balloons, gliders, etc. However when one tries to follow the link for clarification the link is dead.
    The good news is that there is a link given to ask additional questions if the FAQ pages do not cover your specific question.
    Now just come on over and fly for the fun of it and do the Aussie thing of “no worries”.
    Please note: The FAA does not recognize “Ultralight Aircraft “ but defines “Ultralight Vehicles”. The TSA exempts Ultralight Aircraft, which have no sanctioned training, from TSA training requirements. Since you are not operating an aircraft, just a vehicle, you have no aircraft TSA flight training requirements. Is that clear? I expect this will all change when the next revision becomes effective. Please follow the Federal Register for proposed changes. Your comments are important. (Just kidding)
    Last edited by jedi; 06-06-2012 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Clarity?

  8. #28
    Larry Lyons's Avatar
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    Finally Jedi thanks, I have been reading this thread for the first time just now and no one had stated that ultra lights here in the USA are not "aircraft". Crash one and you will see not see the FAA or the NTSB get involved, just the local sherriff, maybe! Larry
    No matter how far you push the envelope; its still stationary!

  9. #29
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    BOY-O-BOY you guys know how to get an Aussie pilot AND his pilot wife thinking.

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