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Thread: Airport Manager and Hangar Rules

  1. #31
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    The operator said he noticed a fuel odor when entering the plane over a 3 week period prior to the accident. One day he got in, turned on the master switch which made a tiny spark, the one in a million odds that the fuel air ratio would be perfect hit jackpot and BOOM! There he was sitting in the seat, plane disintegrated around him, hand still on the master switch, saying "What the........?"
    Marty, no offense but remember that I'm pretty experienced with what happens in various scenarios as both a safety researcher and someone trained to recognize the mechanisms of fire from my time as a fire department officer.

    What you're describing doesn't match that photograph in the slightest nor is it really compatible with survival for a couple of reasons. Inhalation of superheated gases associated with a flash fire or the thermal effects from a fire large enough to create the over pressure to blow apart aeronautical structure are both going make it so that someone is going to be critically injured or rapidly dead and not sitting there wondering what the hell just happened.

    I think you were misinformed. The risk you're describing is real- albeit extremely small- but that aircraft would have burned like a funeral pyre in the scenario you describe. It looks like a collision of some sort, mostly like on the ground with a larger aircraft or a building. I can't read the tail number but if you can figure it out, it would certainly settle the question of what really happened.
    Last edited by steveinindy; 05-25-2012 at 05:39 PM.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  2. #32
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    I have a hangar that I can rent to you with nice metallic blue paint on the inside from the last guy who wanted to "touch-up" his plane
    How much are we talking? I'm going to be looking for a place to build an LSA soon and a hangar might be a better option than trying to get my fiancee and her dad to clean out the garage. LOL
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlB View Post
    1. No non-functioning cars/transportation in hangar, all cars left in hangar are for transportation home.
    This one is a Federal Grant Assurance that is being emphasized by the FAA. No cars, RVs, boats, or other non-aerial vehicles can be stored inside an airport fence without endangering an airport's Airport Improvement Program grant funds.

    Most all those rules are driven by grant assurances, insurance, fire codes, environmental law, etc.

    Does your airfield have a shop with an A&P that is paying rent, liability and other insurance? He's made an investment that can be harmed by someone working on someone else's plane from the trunk of their car. Another grant assurance requires a fair and level playing field which is interpreted as preventing freelance mechanics.

    As a long-time aircraft owner and airport manager, I occasionally find it difficult and unreasonable to comply with the regulations I am supposed to be enforcing. (Now 36" shelves? I have no idea what's driving that one.)
    Last edited by dusterpilot; 05-25-2012 at 06:17 PM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinindy View Post
    Marty, no offense but remember that I'm pretty experienced with what happens in various scenarios as both a safety researcher and someone trained to recognize the mechanisms of fire from my time as a fire department officer.

    What you're describing doesn't match that photograph in the slightest nor is it really compatible with survival for a couple of reasons. Inhalation of superheated gases associated with a flash fire or the thermal effects from a fire large enough to create the over pressure to blow apart aeronautical structure are both going make it so that someone is going to be critically injured or rapidly dead and not sitting there wondering what the hell just happened.

    I think you were misinformed. The risk you're describing is real- albeit extremely small- but that aircraft would have burned like a funeral pyre in the scenario you describe. It looks like a collision of some sort, mostly like on the ground with a larger aircraft or a building. I can't read the tail number but if you can figure it out, it would certainly settle the question of what really happened.

    Golly gee whiz steveinindy, before postulating three paragraphs of BS to tell me I'm wrong you should explore Google. "Dec. 2004 + Lafayette, La + Cessna 340 + explodes + etc.", I'll help you get started with the avweb linky below. I know the guy that was sitting in the airplane when it exploded so don't tell me what didn't happen (insert rolls eyes emoticon here, again).

    http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/188707-1.html

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by dusterpilot View Post
    Does your airfield have a shop with an A&P that is paying rent, liability and other insurance? He's made an investment that can be harmed by someone working on someone else's plane from the trunk of their car. Another grant assurance requires a fair and level playing field which is interpreted as preventing freelance mechanics.

    Who's interpretation is that? Where is it written? I'd like to see it.

  6. #36
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    Golly gee whiz steveinindy, before postulating three paragraphs of BS to tell me I'm wrong you should explore Google. "Dec. 2004 + Lafayette, La + Cessna 340 + explodes + etc.", I'll help you get started with the avweb linky below. I know the guy that was sitting in the airplane when it exploded so don't tell me what didn't happen
    All I said was that it doesn't look like it. There are airplane crash photos circulating on the internet with false stories that I was wagering an educated guess that this was another one of those. It looked a lot like what happened when the wing of an airliner or other large aircraft "scalps" a smaller airplane and there was no apparent matching NTSB report when I went looking for an explanation. That's why I was guessing that you had been told something inaccurate.

    I've seen personally (as a deputy coroner or firefighter) what happens when fuel (or other flammable) vapors ignite in an enclosed space and it's really freakishly unusual to have enough force involved to blow the roof off something structurally sound like a plane or car without killing or at least severely maiming the person inside. Usually the windows give out and the frame of the vehicle is maybe a little distorted but otherwise intact. My apologies and I stand corrected. This one goes in the "That guy was darn lucky" pile I guess.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  7. #37

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    I dont know.................! I would never say never. When I was on The Terre Haute fire Dept I saw some strange stuff! I once seen a house blown up and the guy was in a couch in a tree a ok. The hosue was kindleing and flatened. He was a golfer and there were golf balls everywhere ! It was like Mr moose droped those ping pong balls on Kaptain Kangeroo. He should have died.

    Steve if your still a fireman I would build it at the fire house.. I rebuilt most of a Cessna 172 at Fire house number 7 in T.H. One peice at a time.
    Anyway, I didn't see a thing in them there rules about cheap couches and a strpper pole.

  8. #38

  9. #39
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    I rebuilt most of a Cessna 172 at Fire house number 7 in T.H. One peice at a time.
    So that was you....LOL That story has become part of THFD and Vigo County legend. I was taught about it during my EMT class and heard the story repeated during my fire school. LOL

    I once seen a house blown up and the guy was in a couch in a tree a ok.
    Yeah, I've seen a couple of house explosions like that but not that dramatic. I was basing the airplane educated guess on the number of times I've seen people try to carry gasoline in their back seat and have a cigarette at the same time. It just doesn't end well normally. Ditto for trying to move a working meth lab in a T-top Camaro. It's the quickest way to find out what it's like to be ejected from an aircraft. That one happened in front of the gas station at 59 and 46 over in Clay County. It was the first time I ever saw skin actually "dripping" off someone. I wish I could say it was the only time.

    Anyway, I didn't see a thing in them there rules about cheap couches and a strpper pole.
    It's a shame that you weren't at one of the other stations (I think it was Station Five). They allegedly got caught with a stripper in their station a few years back.

    Steve if your still a fireman I would build it at the fire house
    I gave it up a few years back when the ex-wife decided she didn't want me "risking my neck". If I wind up somewhere with a volunteer department, I'll probably pick it back up but I did my firefighting as a volly and my EMS work as a paid guy and as a volunteer.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  10. #40
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    That's amazing. It kind of makes you wonder about the structural integrity of the 340 though doesn't it? Not even enough heat to cause significant fire damage but enough overpressure to rip the roof off.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



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