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Thread: What was good and bad about OSH2011...

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamic View Post
    My response to the tram & bus schedules: I say EAA reduces the tram and bus schedule to save some money or at least do some advertising to encourage people to walk to their destinations....
    That's not a bad idea, but even if the schedule is reduced, it should be published somewhere and then actually followed. I certainly could use the exercise but my kids are pretty little and there are also many elderly folks at the show - it can be a challenge for either the young or the old to walk from, say, the ultralight area (where we usually tried to eat dinner and watch the ultralights & powered parachutes) back to near the Hilton where we were camped. Again, if the schedules are published somewhere, we could at least choose not to do that when we know the kids will be too tired to walk that far, and if we know there will be no bus or tram, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon
    As to the original posters issue with the North 40, a major problem with traffic is that blasted gate by the Hilton which has always been a problem even back before the Hilton was there.
    It's one of the only after hours vehicle access points to the grounds which makes the North40 road a thoroughfare all night long.
    I do take issue with him thinking that the North 40 bus is somehow the property of the GAP/GAC people. No more so than us down in Vintage keeping you off the blue trams/south40 bus.
    As the original poster, I don't recall saying that I thought the N40 bus was the property of the GAP/GAC folks. I know lots of non GAP/GAC people who use the bus all week to go to the Hilton or up to the Weeks hangar or whatever, and that's great - as you said, we (GAC) certainly use the S40 bus from time to time. As I tried - perhaps unsuccessfully - to illustrate in my original post, there were two specific issues I had:

    1) People walking in the gates from outside and wandering around, looking at tents, etc. (Looking at planes is great - looking in tents is less great.) Also, people setting up tents without airplanes or even camping registrations - not that I think everyone has to fly in to the show, of course, but it is a little weird to see some guy just walk up and pitch a tent in an open area without a plane in the airplane camping area, ya know?

    2) People using the N40 bus as a shuttle to free car parking. As I mentioned, after the Sat night airshow, there were literally hundreds of people waiting for the N40 bus - each bus holds almost 100 people when you count people standing in the aisle, and there were 3 or 4 buses before we got to the head of the line, with at least another couple of buses worth of people behind us. And again, on the bus we got on, of the 100 or so people on board, exactly 5 of us did not get off at the pedestrian gates leading out.

    Again, I am not saying that we (GAC) somehow "own" this bus. I'm just saying that it's inappropriate for hundreds of people to be using it to bypass where they are supposed to be parking, and that I was concerned (this year, for the first time) about some of the people walking into the campsite from off the grounds.

    On the flip side, when I went back to read my original post, I see that I complained a lot more than I complimented when in reality the things I complained about were very minor annoyances in an otherwise wonderful few days, so here are some more of the "good" things this year, aside from what I mentioned originally:

    - Night time airshow and fireworks were really really great. I know for my kids, it was the highlight of the week, and I thought it was pretty cool too!

    - Facilities are getting better each year (or maybe I am just discovering new flush toilets around the grounds, etc.) The sealed roads and additional flush toilets were great.

    - Fly-In Theater: This was the first year we went to a show (George Lucas/"Red Tails" and Apollo 13) and it was much better than I had anticipated. Even free popcorn!

    - Weather was great, for the most part. I know some were complaining about the heat but mid-80s felt pretty nice after the triple-digit temps much of the country has been suffering this summer.

    - Bugs were better than in years past, too.

    - I thought there was a good mix of programs, from the Rutan & Hoover tributes to seeing the 787, etc.

    - Spending time walking around admiring the homebuilts and vintage planes is always a great way to spend a morning or evening.

    Steve Lin

  2. #22
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Don't know how the N40 handles it, but Vintage security does very much patrol around looking for unpaid tents. It's been a significant problem in the past. You can still walk up with your EAA card and invent an N-number and buy a camping spot and pitch it under a tree somewhere, but at least they're paid.

  3. #23

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    Good:

    Seeing a bunch of young people at KidVenture. We ran through about 700+ workbooks in Young Eagles Flight Education. What was really heartening was seeing some repeat "customers" from previous years. There was one young man on the sims that had logbook entries dating back 3 years.

    What made me feel really good was that a lot of folks responded when we asked for help when the FAA couldn't be there to participate due to the funding issues. We had some big holes in the schedule that some great people helped fill.

    Better announcements of potential severe weather. Having been caught in Hangar D at Lakeland this past spring, that has particular relevance for me. Still concerned about sheltering, though.

    Bad:

    Cell phone issues documented elsewhere, both courtesy and connectivity issues. At least I didn't hear that stupid NexTel chirp this year.

    Empty seats on golf carts. Not for me, since I really need to walk more, but I think that if you have a cart and see someone who could benefit from a ride, asking them if they would like one would be nice. I saw too many seniors passed by folks in carts.

    Sunday. There's probably nothing we can do about it, but it always feels like the circus leaving town.
    Last edited by Bob Meder; 08-03-2011 at 07:35 PM. Reason: I had to add CRLF's.

  4. #24
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    One bad thing I encountered was someone who came in for the day. He brought his father, and his two kids. Paid non-member price. They came to see the world's only flying Helldiver that was on the event's publicity poster, the program, the advertisements, etc. His father flew that type of plane in the war. Unfortunately, by Saturday that plane had left. He saw my semi-official looking EAA tag, and let me know that he was very dissatisfied that the plane that was publicized so much was gone. They walked right back out.

    I realize that plane is privately owned, but that one appeared on so much publicity material, arrangements should have been made to keep it around until the end.
    Last edited by PaulDow; 08-04-2011 at 01:14 PM.

  5. #25

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    Good:
    - AirVenture was, once again, the highlight of my year!
    - The opportunity to volunteer and experience the airshow like few others was, as always, incredible!
    - The Tributes to Burt Rutan and Bob Hoover were great!
    - Getting to see friends I only get to see in Oshkosh is always a highlight!
    - Operation Thirst. Nuff Said. lol

    Needs Improvement:
    - I griped about it in another thread, but the amount of litter this year was more than I've ever seen at AV, despite plentiful dumpsters.
    - Food was overpriced. My friends and I either ate from Operation Thirst (not an option for normal attendees) or went off the grounds for food during the week.
    - The OSHALERT on my cellphone was very behind on weather alerts. I had another service to text me severe warnings and on two occasions I received a Severe Thunderstorm warning within a minute of when it was issued from the one source, while I received it from OSHALERT 10 minutes later one time and over 15 minutes later the other time. That bothers me because people who relied only on OSHALERT may not have had time to secure their aircraft (granted, they should have already, but anywho...), close their tents, or seek sufficient shelter. I guess that's just the meteorologist in me getting annoyed with that. *shrug*

    I can't really complain about the WiFi because I was always in areas where it was the most used. Of course it's going to be difficult to connect to and slow. I just used my Verizon wireless internet instead and was perfectly happy!

    All in all, AirVenture was amazing this year, as it always is! My worst day in Oshkosh trumps my best day at my day job!

  6. #26

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    What's right with Oshkosh? Almost everything.

    What can be improved?

    - Still too many powered vehicles in the "restricted" areas during the day.
    - Cell coverage is poor. However, I understand that adding infrastructure for a one week event isn't a big priority for ATT & Verizon.
    - Need a camp store in the North 40/Warbird/Homebuilt area. It is a real hike from there to the Red Barn. There used to be a store in that area but the warbirds took the space.
    - Need more quick options for a drink and/or snack around the campus. All the lines move glacially slow.
    - Lots of people had problems getting fuel this year. I had to make a stop on the way home because Basler (or whoever) didn't make it by my plane in the day and a half I had a fuel tag rubber-banded to the prop (this was in HBC).
    - Anchor the porta potties - I'd have hated to be in one of the many that blew over in Saturday's storm.

    All in all a very well managed event, but it can always be improved.

  7. #27
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
    - Still too many powered vehicles in the "restricted" areas during the day.
    Agreed... it was enforced well but there were way too many passes issued this year (it seems way up since they established the "Cart Path / Restricted Zone" a few years back).
    I know Honda and HAI and those guys paid big money for those big VIP booths on the flight line, but does that mean they get free reign to drive cars and golf cars everywhere in the
    restricted area. There must have been 30 cars with red stripe passes next to the Honda booth.

    - Need more quick options for a drink and/or snack around the campus. All the lines move glacially slow.
    I actually saw improvement here. There were a lot of new Zaug's shacks where you could get an ice cream or soda or hotdog. Most had pretty small lines (even when the traditional places were busy).
    - Lots of people had problems getting fuel this year. I had to make a stop on the way home because Basler (or whoever) didn't make it by my plane in the day and a half I had a fuel tag rubber-banded to the prop (this was in HBC).
    Part of this was the rain. They stopped driving the trucks on the grass for the wetter days because it ruts up the place badly for aircraft taxi. We had to relocate a few planes to where the hose would reach from a hard surface to get them fueled.
    - Anchor the porta potties - I'd have hated to be in one of the many that blew over in Saturday's storm.
    I think if you were in it, it would have not blown over. They're pretty light when empty. The biggest suckage with the port a potties is that the frequency of them being serviced was way down and EUUUEEEUEUUEUEUE they didn't even load up the ones in Vintage with the blue juice until the show started so those who were camping in their early had some pretty stinky and otherwise unsanitary conditions to deal with.

  8. #28

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    AirVenture Suggestions

    First let me say I love AirVenture. There are so much that is great about it -- but I'm just going to offer some suggestions for improvements:

    -- I'd like to build on a suggestion to bring back The Parade of Homebuilts. Either during each day's airshow or before, maybe have one of each kind of homebuilt fly around the pattern a few time with the annoucer talking about each type. For common types like RVs, maybe have a lotto for who gets to fly the RV for that day, with a different plane/pilot each day.

    -- Warbirds. I know this will be controversial as many think there is too much emphasis on Warbirds already. But I -- a homebuilder -- love to see the Warbirds fly, especially WWI, WWII, & Korea. I've seen them all on static displays in museums, but the great thing about AirVenture is that you see them fly. That said, there are many Warbirds at Oshkosh but don't fly. For example. this year the following planes were there but didn't fly (at least not while I was there Wed & Thu): P-38, B-29, P-40, Grumman Duck, F4U Corsair, Zero, FW-190, Dauntless, Avenger, Bearcat (flew briefly in heritage flt). I think that one of each type that is airworthy should fly in a Warbird parade -- every day. EAA should pay the owners expenses for it. Some company sponsored the airshow for the entire week - money shouldn't be a problem. Same for the current Navy warbirds like the P-3, T-45, T-6B, Helos -- why not have them fly around the patch as well?

    -- Special Days. When they have a special event like Navy Day on Wednesday, AirVenture should make every effort to get all the airworthy Warbirds they can for the occasion. Yes, they had a Bearcat, Wildcat, Tigercat, Duck, HellDiver, Avenger, Dauntless, and FJ4 Fury. But no F6F Hellcat, AD1 Skyraider, PBY-Catalina? I know these are still flying around. What about some of the prewar stuff like the F3F?

    -- Special Days 2: On the Burt Rutan day, it would have been nice to see an example of all his designs fly around the pattern, not just the Starship and Boomerang.

    -- WWI replicas. Where are all the homebuilt WWI planes? Last year they had the DR-1 Triplane, DR-7 and DR-8 from Colorado, but nothing this year. Many homebuilders have built WWI replica's -- why are they not at AirVenture? I know they are not the easiest planes to go cross-country in, but maybe AirVenture could make it worth their while.

    -- Famous planes. I've never seen a Spirt of St. Louis replica fly -- that's something that ought to be done yearly at AirVenture. They just finished building a Bleriott replica -- it would have been nice to see it fly. How about one of the early Wright Flyers? My hat is off to Bob Cooledge for building and flying the 1911 Curtiss Pusher to AirVenture -- and flying it there.

    -- Team RV flying in the airshow at least 3 times.
    -- The last two times I've been to the EAA Museum they they have had the Eagles section closed off setting up for a dinner.

    -- And yes, more showers in the HBC area! World peace too.

    Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

    Bill C.
    RV-7 Builder & Flyer

  9. #29
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    They had a homebuilt showcase this year. I watched it being staged at the end of 36. I think they could definitely do it more than one day (perhaps alternating with a vintage showcase which I'm not sure they've done in YEARS).

    Paying *ANYBODY* to fly is a slippery slope.

  10. #30

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    I, also, would like to have homebuilt and antique showcases several times during the week. I suspect the issue is that those probably don't do much to boost attendance. I think the EAA has figured out that the airplane crowd will come to Oshkosh anyway, so <within limits> whatever they do won't change attendance or income from that segment. On the other hand, flame spewing trucks, pyro, warbirds, extreme aerobatic acts, and current military hardware all pull in the non-aviation crowd. So Airventure (and SnF too) load up on those acts to generate revinue from the general public.

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