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Thread: What was good and bad about OSH2011...

  1. #61
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    We have a large-scale AirVenture debriefing coming up next week - I'll bring a copy of this thread and make sure that all of the concerns are heard, I can promise you that. I can't speak to all of them, but I can say that nobody will be griping louder than me about the vehicle traffic backup problems - I had to leave the grounds one afternoon and run home. My (normally) 12 minute return trip took nearly 90, so I'll be beating that drum from personal experience.
    Last edited by Hal Bryan; 08-24-2011 at 07:37 AM.

    Hal Bryan
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  2. #62

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    Hal, Just wondering if minutes are kept on these debriefs and if so will they publish them for members to review, I have a thread on the mud issues in Camp Schollar and I will be curious on the discussion reference that issue.
    Thanks

  3. #63

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    Hal - one thought might be to change the access at the intersection of South Koeller St./Knapp Street Rd. and West South Park Ave. We used to be able to access Poberezny Road to the museum at that light, but was blocked off this year. This took a lot of people by surprise (including some semi's that had to make a u-turn). I think I can understand why the city/county wanted to limit that path, considering all of the traffic coming from US41 at that light. However, allowing vehicles with parking passes to go that way might relieve some of the congestion on South Park as well as on the 41 interchange. There would have to be signage to make this work, of course.

    Just a thought.
    Last edited by Bob Meder; 08-24-2011 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Had to add a CRLF, Hal...
    Anxiety is nature's way of telling you that you've already goofed up.

  4. #64
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNWORD View Post
    Hal, Just wondering if minutes are kept on these debriefs and if so will they publish them for members to review, I have a thread on the mud issues in Camp Schollar and I will be curious on the discussion reference that issue.
    Thanks
    Minutes are most definitely kept - we've already generated pages and pages of notes from each department, and this larger meeting will be the first step, starting to encapsulate those and build up action plans over the coming months. I don't know that we've ever specifically published anything out of these, and that's a call that would come from above my pay grade, frankly.

    But I can tell you that when we all get in the room and start talking about what went well and what needs improvement, there won't be any surprises. Except maybe the fact that we're our own harshest critics...

    Hal Bryan
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  5. #65
    EAA Staff / Moderator Hal Bryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Meder View Post
    Hal - one thought might be to change the access at the intersection of South Koeller St./Knapp Street Rd. and West South Park Ave. We used to be able to access Poberezny Road to the museum at that light, but was blocked off this year. This took a lot of people by surprise (including some semi's that had to make a u-turn). I think I can understand why the city/county wanted to limit that path, considering all of the traffic coming from US41 at that light. However, allowing vehicles with parking passes to go that way might relieve some of the congestion on South Park as well as on the 41 interchange. There would have to be signage to make this work, of course.

    Just a thought.
    Thanks for the well-reasoned feedback, Bob - some interesting ideas. I'll put these in front of the site / operations folks.

    Thanks!

    Hal

    Hal Bryan
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  6. #66
    BrianS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Johnson View Post
    I hope this is an appropriate forum to mention a concern I have about the 'Lifetime Dinner' on Tuesday evening. Though various members and guests were recognized (standing and ovations), at no time were 'homebuilders' (those 'experimental aircraft' people) recognized. Twice now I've had people around me comment about this, and I was wondering if perhaps a few seconds of the evening could be dedicated to the people engaged in/with experimental aircraft (e.g. builders?). Thanks, Craig
    I wouldn't want to see it go that way. I appreciate the brief mentions of "members" and the like. But what kind of griping are you asking for by highlighting "homebuilders?" What of the guy who restored a classic? What of the U/Ls, the IAC competitors.

    I get the homebuilt heritage of EAA - but it's a big organization with lots of nooks and crannies. A/C, U/L, IAC, Warbirds...these aren't "second-class" members. They're EAA members - just like you and me.

    If you want to honor the homebuilders, then maybe you ought to have a Homebuilders dinner. Oh wait...they already do that.

    http://www.airventure.org/attractions/homebuilders.html
    Brian K. Schermerhorn

  7. #67

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    Pretty harsh post Brian, lol. Wow.

  8. #68
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    The good:
    *I love Airventure so much that as long as I can fly, I'll fly in. When "they" take that privilege away from me some day, I'll drive in--that covers most things, but a couple of specifics:
    *The food from the vendors has improved a lot over the years, and the prices are OK--you should buy a hot dog at a Colorado Rockies game some time!
    *The volunteers are as always great--friendly, helpful, etc.

    The not so good:
    *Vehicular traffic in pedestrian areas--way too many golf carts, etc., driven way too fast by way too young drivers.
    *Inadequate cleaning of porta potties early in the week in Vintage--improved greatly as the week went on.

    The "really needs improvement":
    *Marshallers bringing aircraft in must recognize what prop wash will do to existing camps. Twice my camp was badly blown because the marshaller waived an aircraft in and turned it, blowing over my chair, table, etc. If airplanes can be towed out, they can be towed in. Existing camps must be respected. In both cases, it was very young marshallers--probably neither was a pilot anyway--but in any event each needed better training since their judgment was a little deficient.
    *Marshallers should be absolutely mandatory in all aircraft parking/camping areas to assist getting out as well as in. This should be emphasized at check-in, verbally and in writing--maybe even signs posted. Sunday (last day) there were no marshallers in Vintage (South 40) for awhile, and an elderly pilot (probably younger than me) with a baby Beech cranked up and attempted to taxi out without sufficient clearance between his wing tips and parked aircraft. He stopped inches short of creaming the spinner of one of them. I helped him move his airplane, but he would not listen to my suggestion that we should push his airplane back and use a different route. After clearing the spinner, he cranked up again and was stopped by a protruding tent vestibule. So he got out and said, "I'm going to move that G-D tent!" Again I suggested that we push his airplane to a place where he could more easily taxi out. But he repeated himself, then pulled the stakes on the tent vestibule so we could pull his airplane past it. Then he got back in and cranked up again, to leave without restaking the tent. I signaled him to stop and cut his engine, which he did. I stepped in front of his wing and said, "You need to put that tent back up." "I'm not going to put that G-D tent up!" "Yes, you are. I'm not leaving until you do." He repeated himself, said he was in a hurry to leave, and I again told him that I wasn't moving, and if he was in a hurry to leave, he better get busy and put the tent back up. He then got out of the airplane and said, "I'll show you what I'm going to do." Somehow I didn't feel very threatened, and when he got out and realized that he was only up to my shoulder in height, I guess he had second thoughts. Instead he shouted, "You're a G-D idiot!" "That may be, but you're going to put the tent up." Again, "You're a G-D idiot!" About that time, a marshaller showed up and assisted him to put the tent back up, he got back in his airplane, cranked up and left.

    I should emphasize that I'm not complaining about that last marshaller at all--he was diplomatic and very helpful, and the 10 minutes that went by from the time the Beech "driver" cranked up until he showed up wasn't excessive. Pilots need to be told, though, that moving in and out of the camping areas requires a marshaller, period, and that needs to be enforced in some fashion. As was obvious from this encounter, not all pilots are nice guys, and I'm willing to bet that if that pilot had damaged an airplane in his quest to leave, he would have been just as willing to leave the damage behind as he was intending to do by leaving the tent down.

    Incidentally, the marshaller that eventually helped me move my airplane out by hand was also very, very helpful.

    Cary
    "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth...,
    put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee

  9. #69
    BrianS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAA551WB View Post
    Pretty harsh post Brian, lol. Wow.
    Really? Wasn't meant harshly...Sorry <shrug>

    The suggestion was to take an existing event designed to honor Lifetime Members and First Wing donors and to briefly highlight / mention "homebuilders."

    I respect that suggestion - but I don't agree with it. I often attend this event, and I wouldn't want to see homebuilders asked to stand and be honored because I can imagine my table-mate muttering "I restored a Cub, why don't /I/ get to be honored?" This is my question - where does it end? Do we mention homebuilders at every Vintage function as well? At IAC events? What about the other way around?

    I believe if you stripped everything else away - the Vintage, warbirds, non "homebuilt" vendors....it would still be the biggest "homebuilt" event around. Most planes, most vendors, most forums, etc.

    It just so happens that this giant homebuilt event co-resides with a large antique fly-in, a large gathering of warbirds, a large commercial exhibit, etc.

    This co-residence doesn't diminish the homebuilt aspect at all...in fact I think it highlights it and gets it to a much larger audience.

    I've heard this cry - about Oshkosh (AirVenture), about Sport Aviation, etc neglecting homebuilders - for many, many years. I just don't see it that way.

    That said - I'm not a homebuilder (yet...maybe someday).

    (for the record, 38 year OSH attendee, second-generation lifetime member)
    Last edited by BrianS; 08-26-2011 at 07:43 AM.
    Brian K. Schermerhorn

  10. #70
    AllenR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamic View Post
    My response to the tram & bus schedules: I say EAA reduces the tram and bus schedule to save some money or at least do some advertising to encourage people to walk to their destinations....
    Whoa! Don't reduce the tram & bus schedules. My family is at AV all week long and travel from one end of the grounds to the other every day due to volunteering and sightseeing. I like exercise too but my feet and back can't take 56 hours of hiking.

    Someone made a comment about all the trash on the grounds. Hmmm, I didn't see it, I take that back, actually the only litter I saw was when the dust devil came through and blew the vendors' brochures all over. Other than that, I thought everyone did a pretty good job of policing themselves. Did see some dumpsters that were over-full though.
    Allen Rice

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