What was good and bad about OSH2011...

[hkyplr18]

Does anybody from EAA actually read these compaints? I would love to hear some sort of response to this thread from an actual EAA higher up. I, along with everyone else here pay our dues. How about a response for your members.....?? Especially something about how EAA plans to deal with motorized traffic on the grounds next year. Something has to be done before someone gets run over or hurt.

[Kevin O'Halloran]

The B2OSH group ( over 300 people and lots of kids) have a couple of vans ( we pay for them) with passes to the north 40----we have them parked during the day--and NEVER go into the restricted area--I agree--too many kids are driving golf carts in the restricted area ( hell--at my age --anyone under 30 is a kid <g>--)
Kevin
BTW--those vans are always full--if there are empty seats, we pick up anyone walking--old people first,,then people with small kids, etc--if your a ugly cessna pilot, your probably out of luck <g>

[Steve Buss]

Hello hkyplr18,

Yes, we do read these boards and respond when appropriate. The items in this thread, along with other feedback we receive, is compiled and reviewed for future action. It is part of our formal de-brief and we are currently in the middle of the process.

I don't know what steps will be taken to address the vehicle situation, but I can tell you it is a comment that is seen frequently. When we do have changes or a plan in place, we will do our best to get the word out to everyone.

Steve

[TMann]

Zack Baughman, you put a good face on EAA and represent them well.

You stopped and offered me a ride in from the Museum the Friday of Airventure. (My feet thank you.)

I'll get that recording of the radio interview my dad did when he got back from the Pacific (Helldiver pilot on the USS Bunker Hill.)
It will be great for your 'Timeless Voices' project.

[hkyplr18]

Steve thanks for the reply. I wanted to make sure that someone from EAA actually does hear the good and the bad. It might be good to have someone from EAA poke their nose in here every once in a while just so we know someone hears us! Thanks
Jordan

[Bill Greenwood]

I am very glad that the public is welcome at EAA Airventure and that it is not just limited to members. It is a great event, and having more people there must be a good recruiting tool.
I have brought a number of display planes over the years and have had almost no trouble with anyone seeing or walking near them. The only real problem I ever had was a CAP teenager who wanted to refuse to let me into my own plane. I just calmly got in, started up and taxied out. It wasn't the place and wasn't needed to get mad or use any loud argument.
This year, noteworthy in how rare it was, I did meet two rude "officials", one security guy and one volunteer in a orange or red vest on a scooter or small cycle. These were in GAP parking on the north side of rwy 9-27.
Far outnumbered by the many nice folks at EAA over the years.
As for the guy in the Harrier, well the best thing you can say about him is that his plane is neat. I waited about 10 minutes last year for him to finish talking to the media guy; wanted to ask him about his plane; never got a chance as he walked right past me to do some more PR.

[Jim Hann]

• Finally, we had a hard time leaving Sunday morning. I realize it's a busy time, and I'm very happy to wait my turn. But we waited between 45 minutes to an hour in a line of over 30 planes (I could count 30, there may have been more) heading toward rwy 27 from the N40. At the head of the line, whenever planes would taxi from the FBO ramp, they got priority and went ahead of the line. ATC would typically launch 5-6 planes from the south side of 27, during which time perhaps 4 or 5 planes would start up at Basler/Orion and taxi up. When ATC got around to the north side of 27, those 4-5 planes which just started up would be flagged into place by the EAA flag person, and the 30 planes waiting on the grass taxiway would not move.
  
  I saw another post about this or a similar issue, but contrary to that poster, what I saw didn't correspond to "high dollar" planes getting priority. I saw several "normal" singles and twins (Cessnas, Mooneys, etc.) start up at the FBO and just taxi straight out. I also saw one C210 who got fed up with the line and taxi from perhaps 10 spots behind me, through the grass, to the FBO ramp - then since he looked like he was coming from the FBO, the EAA flagman waved him ahead of the line, so he got to skip ahead by seeing what was happening. In the meantime, my oil temp was over 210 by the time I got to depart.
  
  IMHO, this was not due to malicious intent on the part of the flagman or anything else. I like to think he was just clueless that there was a line of 30+ airplanes waiting to go, but I'm not really sure what the problem was. Maybe they have instructions to keep the FBO ramp clear for incoming aircraft or something, so they always get priority?
  
  Along the same lines - in the past, ATC would put two departures next to each other (left half, right half of the runway). This year they were not doing that; not sure if that reduced departure capacity, or what the reasoning was for that - does anyone know?Thanks for taking the time to read this book!
  
  Steve Lin

Steve,

I can address this because Sunday from 0930ish until the airshow I was one of three volunteers manning the A/B intersection North of the 27 departure area. First handicap that day, a C-130 was parked on Bravo over towards the terminal which limited our "escape" routes for traffic. That forced the second issue we had, Alpha going up to the FBOs needed to handle two way traffic more than usual, and we couldn't do that with most of what came down that taxiway. Much of the traffic we had to send down towards the FBOs were the IFR departures that normally go down Bravo but couldn't. The grass taxiway next to Bravo is two way from just west of Alpha which helps. The worst possible bottle neck was when a jet would come inbound someone was sitting on Alpha north of Bravo, if they had to stop in the intersection, it stopped everything. It happened more than once in my 4 1/2 hours out there that day. We could easily see the line of aircraft waiting to depart on the North side, unfortunately for them (and you) it is easier to keep that line where it was than possibly gum up the entire works trying to balance the departures. When we were able, we sequenced the departures to get as many folks from the Bravo line out and off and let folks wait, usually by pulling them off to the east side of the A/B intersection.

The controllers work at the quickest pace that they are comfortable with. We had one spell where we couldn't get the airplanes to the runway fast enough when a veteran OSH/AV controller had the departures running FULL THROTTLE! Two at a time on the runway, when one launched the next was already being put in position behind it. It would have made an ATL or ORD controller blush! Some of the newer or less experienced folks can't work at that pace, that is fine, we don't want accidents. They are also coordinating with all of the other activity going on, remember inbounds and outbounds are on different freqs and the controllers don't get to listen to the other one, they have to go with what they are told. Standing there listening to both freqs I sometimes think I knew better what was happening at the moment, but not what would happen in the next minute or two. Which is better???

Hands down, Sunday before the airshow (also the final volunteer shift of the show at FLO) was my busiest shift the entire week of volunteering. Was it perfect, HECK NO! Could we do better, ALWAYS! Did any metal get bent or aircraft disabled? Not that I know of! I think we did okay running that area for two retirees (a husband and wife) and a furloughed airline pilot :-)

BTW, if you ever want to know more, the FLO building is located near the intersection of 13/27 and is surrounded by the Warbirds area, also feel free to come on out and volunteer!

Jim

[Craig Johnson]

I hope this is an appropriate forum to mention a concern I have about the 'Lifetime Dinner' on Tuesday evening. Though various members and guests were recognized (standing and ovations), at no time were 'homebuilders' (those 'experimental aircraft' people) recognized. Twice now I've had people around me comment about this, and I was wondering if perhaps a few seconds of the evening could be dedicated to the people engaged in/with experimental aircraft (e.g. builders?). Thanks, Craig

[Hal Bryan]

Hi Craig - thanks for the feedback. I'll pass that along this morning.

[docnzok]

There seem to be some main themes that are culminating in this thread. And they all seem to be really evident over the last 2 or three years. Not before.
1. Parking and getting in and out (planes and cars) is getting worse.
2. The amount of vehicles and the carelessness of their drivers and passengers on the grounds during the show is increasing
3. The number of people waiting is getting bigger.
4. The costs are getting higher
5. Suspicious hagglers/ stragglers / people seem to be around a lot of areas.

I posted a while back that getting into the place by car has exponentially gotten worse and the logistics of the whole thing seem to have taken a hit. I never had (or read) any of these concerns prior to 2009 but since then, it seems something has changed. Having cars backup down rt43 for 3 miles and charging 4.50 for a bottle of water makes it harder to justify the 4 hour trip that I make every year.

I hope things get better.