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Thread: Tora, Tora, Tora

  1. #51
    Zack you are too young to understand and don't seem to understand even that. You don't commemorate something by making the act of atrocity "cool pyro", it's done in a much more considerate and respectful manner. Something tells me there is money involved in this decision, not respect or common sense.
    You are confusing commemoration with recreating an atrocity for it's showy COOL factor and thinking, for some absurd reason, that this is commemorative and respectful. It's NOT. It is disrespectful and disgusting and ya'll ought to be ashamed.

    And for those that would think the survivors would put a stop to this if it was important - they have more important things on their minds - LIKE BREATHING DAY TO DAY AT 80 AND 90+ years old - what a ridiculous theory. And if they are like my father was, they just shake their heads at idiots and ignore them. As I probably should - or will - done here.
    So much for opinions.....
    Last edited by flyingriki; 05-18-2012 at 06:04 PM.

  2. #52
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Zack you are too young to understand and don't seem to understand even that. You don't commemorate something by making the act of atrocity "cool pyro", it's done in a much more considerate and respectful manner. Something tells me there is money involved in this decision, not respect or common sense.
    So much for opinions.....
    It's odd that I've seen an airshow portrayal of the Pearl Harbor attack (not sure if it was this particular show since it was a number of years ago) while standing next to my friend Rudy who survived the attack and to this day refers to use the term "Japanese" instead referring to the folks who attacked him using a pejorative that I won't repeat. I don't think he's too young to understand. He said he thought it was respectfully done and that there was no offense intended. If the survivors haven't risen up and put a stop to this (and the media would just LOVE that), then I don't think anyone has a leg to stand on to bitch about it being inappropriate or disrespectful.


    think it is commemorating the event, the loss of lives, America's entry into the war, and helping to make sure that current and future generations DO NOT FORGET.
    That's the attitude Rudy took when I asked him about it. His exact words were "Maybe the smoke and fire and the airplanes will get a few kids interested in what myself and my brothers went through. A memorial and passages in books don't mean much to kids these days."
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingriki View Post
    Zack you are too young to understand and don't seem to understand even that. You don't commemorate something by making the act of atrocity "cool pyro", it's done in a much more considerate and respectful manner. Something tells me there is money involved in this decision, not respect or common sense. You are confusing commemoration with recreating an atrocity for it's showy COOL factor and thinking, for some absurd reason, that this is commemorative and respectful. It's NOT. It is disrespectful and disgusting and ya'll ought to be ashamed.And for those that would think the survivors would put a stop to this if it was important - they have more important things on their minds - LIKE BREATHING DAY TO DAY AT 80 AND 90+ years old - what a ridiculous theory. And if they are like my father was, they just shake their heads at idiots and ignore them. As I probably should - or will - done here.So much for opinions.....
    Hmm, too young too understand? I beg to differ. I make my living interviewing WWII veterans and preserving their stories for future generations. I've talked to dozens of Pearl Harbor survivors. I have a degree in history and have taken multiple courses on the subject of WWII - cultural, economic, military, and political. I'd wager I have a pretty fair understanding of the situation. So please Sir, do not assume I have no understanding of what Tora Tora Tora represents. You obviously missed my point regarding the noise and pyro. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on what celebrate and commemorate mean and leave it at that. Zack

  4. #54
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    This has got to be the dumbest crap I have ever heard. WWII vets will be offended? This display was originally started by WWII vets. Do some research before you get offended. This act has been going on for 40 years. SO now you are offended? You know what offends me? Forgetting history or glazing over it like the media loves to do. That is worse. Current history books don't teach enough WWII, and Jap one's don't even mention it. The 9/11 comments make me laugh. On 9/11 I wasn't watching it on a TV, I was looking at it first hand. And let me tell you something. How this country has forgotten what happened there is a bigger disgrace than flying two airliners around at an airshow would ever be. Some of you people really need a grip. Next thing the Civil War rean actors will be a disgrace too.

  5. #55

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    What is really an outrage is those movies. Do you know there are at least three movies about the sinking of the Titanic, including the latest version in 3D.
    Do you know that in all those movies the iceberg does not give the Captain advance notice of its attack, it just lies there secretly in wait, kind of like the Japs. And in all three of these movies the ending is the same, the iceberg wins.

    I can't believe there are movies that glorify this attack by the iceberg. And in these movies no P-40 came to help.

    Zack, I thought your reply was classy and level headed. You don't need to say much more, we hope to see you in July.

  6. #56
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    OK, kids. Let's all "simma down now." This is my original post:

    "Looks like we are going to honor the pilots who attacked Pearl Harbor at AirVenture 2012. That would not have happened a few years ago when a lot of WWII pilots still came to Oshkosh. Going to be interesting to see "politically correct" this will be presented. I doubt we will see a B-29 dropping it's simulated egg as that would be very most likely considered "inappropriate."....... What would "Pappy" Gregory Boyington say?"

    It didn't say Tora, Tora, Tora should or shouldn't be presented, but questioned as to whether the aerial demonstration "honored" the pilots or the attack. The attack was not "honorable" nor were the pilots. They were doing what they were ordered to do. I just remember that many of the Americans were not real appreciative of the attack "which will live in infamy." Note definition of infamy: extremely bad reputation, public reproach, or strong condemnation as the result of a shameful, criminal, or outrageous act: a time that will live in infamy.


    Once again, "Would it be "appropriate" to demonstrate an attack on Hiroshima with a B-29 flying overhead and simulate dropping an atomic bomb? Why not? There would be those who would have tantrums, fits and "gnashing of teeth" were that to happen.

    Time does not change history. Only people, especially those who majored in history, teach and write about history, change history.

  7. #57
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    Once again, "Would it be "appropriate" to demonstrate an attack on Hiroshima with a B-29 flying overhead and simulate dropping an atomic bomb? Why not? There would be those who would have tantrums, fits and "gnashing of teeth" were that to happen.
    You mean like a bunch of folks are doing here about this?

    Only people, especially those who majored in history, teach and write about history, change history
    *rolls eyes*
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  8. #58
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    I read the entire posts about this "show" and now I am looking foreward to the event!
    That said, I have a bit of a sore spot about the CAF, now the Comemorative air force...I still enjoy they shows and the aircraft, however a few years back they caved in the name of political correctness and pressure. My feeling is the indicated pressure was put on them and instead of at fighting for their heritage they just rolled over to the winds of precieved word related racisim.
    To me there is no dishonor in the word "Confederate" but I guess we all have our phobias.

  9. #59
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    To me there is no dishonor in the word "Confederate" but I guess we all have our phobias.
    We had a similar group who got all pissy when one of the WWII living history events I was attending got buzzed by a flight of four scale replica ME109s chased by a flight of three scaled P-51s. Someone went to the news and bitched about the "Nazi insignia" on the side of those planes." The media was about to have a cow over when someone pointed out that of the four ME109 "replicas", three of them were flown by Jewish pilots. That shut them up.

    My attitude is that the mission in the case of CAF is more important than the name and honestly 'commemorative' is a more accurate description, so I don't really care what they call them. People are going to gripe and get offended no matter what you do. You only need to look on this forum to see that demonstrated quite well.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  10. #60

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    "Gently 56", I am a life member of CAF, and like you I was not for a name change. However, I trust the management when they explained that these days the word "Confederate" was associated with slavery. Now you may not see it that way or I may not, but many corporations who were potential contributors, felt that way so much so that they did not want their corporations associated with that name., or to have to justify it to stockholders.
    A public group like CAF depends to a large extend on donors of money or services, and I think they were right to preserve the donors. I also think it is really good that the new name is still CAF, just that the C means a different word.
    Of course if you have a few spare $billion laying around and want to send a big part to the CAF, they might rename it whatever you want; how about THE GOOD OLE BOYS FLYIN N LYIN CLUB, or some such.
    Much more serious to me, is that the group that once meant the great combat airplanes of WW II now lets all sorts of diesel burning and nosewheel junk fly under their banner.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 05-22-2012 at 08:29 PM.

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