450kg is nearly 1000 pounds... not only is it likely that you can build lighter than this, but it probably won't fly if you don't. Most Air Campers are somewhere around the 700 pound (320kg) range.
450kg is nearly 1000 pounds... not only is it likely that you can build lighter than this, but it probably won't fly if you don't. Most Air Campers are somewhere around the 700 pound (320kg) range.
Thanks, Mark, but I think we may be talking apples and oranges. Bernie Pietepol listed the original Air Camper empty weight at 610 lbs, though most are definitely a little heavier than that. That 450 kg limit for European microlights is gross weight ready to take off with two passengers, fuel, etc. Air Camper gross weight is listed at 995-1000 lbs so definitely doable as a microlight. The problem, of course, is that while fuel, oil (and water if you've got a radiator) weigh the same as they did in 1929, many people do not. Still, with a little care, it shouldn't be too hard to keep the weight down (perhaps ponying up the money for a Rotax 912) and it would be great fun to bring an antique-looking Piet' to fly-ins to play with the tube-and-dacron, composite and metal modern microlights.
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Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED
and other safe, simple, affordable homebuilt aircraft
Ahh, I see. I was indeed thinking empty weight.
Hi Rob - I bought the original plans from Don Pietenpol in 1994 - never really got serious, and now I find myself in the UK - having to build following the UK rules - these include the Wills plans. There are lots of changes from the original plans, some of them good.......I think the wing spar design is a material/cost savings as you need long pieces of 1" x 1" (or 1 1/8") spar caps with 1/8" ply webs in place of the solid spar. It is probably lighter (I have not done the comparison) but certainly makes it easier to find the material.
I do not know if you can still purchase the Wills plans from Jim - they are wrapped up in lots of legal jargon that prevent you from making more than one aircraft, copying, etc. but I think his contact info is on the LAA website. You can let me know if you can't find it, I can dig it out.
If you can get to Brodhead, you will certainly get a ride and see for yourself the load issues. Talk to Piet pilots and you will have the facts. You (or maybe it was another poster) mentioned contacting James Buco - I think you meant Alan James, builder and pilot of G-BUCO - a UK Piet flying here now for 20 years! Alan is a great guy and will answer any questions you have, I am certain.
Another friend of mine suggested that if a person can physically fit in the front pit of a Piet - then the Piet will fly with them! I think it is as much about flexibility to get into the Piet as weight.......I know, I am old and fat!!!!
Good luck with your search
Mark
Matthew
The Pietenpol is unlikely to meet the wing loading requirements regarding stall speed to meet the 450kg class. The max weight all up allowed in the UK is 1200lbs as a normal light aircraft, most weigh over 700lbs empty!
Johnnysdrop
Thank, johhnysdrop, but I am pretty sure that in France the wing loading is a guideline and you can show demonstrated flight performance in lieu of the low wing loading. Published stall speed of a Piet' that I have seen is 30 knots (34.5 mph, 55.5 kph) so well within the microlight requirement of 65 kph minimum speed. But, as you suggest, the key is going to be keeping the weight down in order to keep a reasonable useful load.
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Matthew Long, Editor
cluttonfred.info
A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED
and other safe, simple, affordable homebuilt aircraft
In all of North-America the exclusive source of Oratex is actually www.BetterAircraftFabric.com
We are also glad to send out lots of detail photos of Oratex-covered Pietenpols and get Oratex-Pietenpol Builders in contact with each other.
See here some Oratex-Pietenpols:
Best Regards, Lars 907 229 6792