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Thread: Using a Car GPS for Flight Navigation

  1. #11
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dov_elyada View Post
    Thanks, Ron.

    There occurred a variety of hardware-looking problems, non of them was related to loss of GPS signal. Examples: (1) The moving map and GPS position marker froze and the on/off button did not respond; since I couldn't use the reset button in flight, I yanked the supply cable out and waited until the battery was used up. (2) The map stopped moving and gradually the GPS position marker went out of the frame. (3) Recurring crashes: suddenly the navigation software would go off and restarting it would keep it going for only a minute or so before the next crash.

    When installing the GPS on the dashboard I did pay attention to vibration isolation. The dashboard itself is padded with foam and vinyl upholstery and the spring clip pressing the base of the pedestal to it is doing so through a thick and soft rubber cushion. That's why acoustic noise was my most likely culprit. Yet the possibility still exists that what I've done to isolate vibrations is not sufficient.
    With that info, I'm inclined to think the problem might be a faulty unit rather than environmental. Is it still under warranty? Have you checked whether there's a firmware update available? Vibration-related hardware issues are probably going to cause complete failures, not weirdness like the map stopping moving while the unit continues to update position.

    Another possibility is that the unit is having problems with EMI/ESD (electro-magnetic interference/electro-static discharge) or the supply voltage. For EMI/ESD, you want to make sure any external metal (such as antenna ports) are covered. However, the touch screen itself can be the main point of vulnerability. Here's a writeup from a company that does OEM shielding... it explains the problem:

    http://www.bergquistcompany.com/pdfs..._Shielding.pdf

    That company's product can only be applied during manufacture, so it's no help to you. ESD would actually explain the fact that the unit worked fine for the first ten hours; the built-in countermeasures worked fine until a microscopic hole got punched through by a bigger-than-normal discharge. It then became vulnerable to lower-level shocks.

    You *might* try applying a screen protector such as is sold for IPADs and smart phones. I'm not too optimistic, since the ESD entry route appears to be the edges, not the glass itself.

    Another factor that might be an issue is electrical noise via the power line. Assuming you've got an engine with an alternator, this shouldn't be an issue...but if you're using one of the Rotax versions that get power from the magneto, it might be a bit more likely. This is easy enough to eliminate... charge the GPS's internal batteries, and make a flight or two and see if the problem goes away. If it does, then additional power line isolation will help.

    Ron Wanttaja

  2. #12

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    It works fine!

    I've used a Garmin V for years for this purpose on faster planes (PA-180, C172, etc). I used to download the XL data files from the FAA, but this site:
    http://navaid.com/GPX/
    has the data in GPX format (nav aids, airports, etc). The Garmin software (Mapsource) reads this readily, albeit slowly, and I just upload the area I want into the GPS as waypoints. I suspect the sucessor to Mapsource, Basecamp, works as well; I just downloaded it and haven't tried it yet.

    I have a Garmin Nüvi too. It's a very capable car GPS and works in airliners, but doesn't allow access to the track (I use the track for geo-tagging photos; my phone didn't have the limitation). I suspect it's a speed limit thing- the track is saved and visible, but that part isn't in the track file. In an ultralight, I think you'd be well below the cutoff speed in the GPS (whatever it is) but it is something to be aware of. Test it well before leaving your local area.

    As suggested earlier, the GPS is only a part of my navigation portfolio. I use charts, VORs, and deduced reckoning too.

  3. #13

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    GPS Suggestion

    I use an Adventure Pilot iFLY 700 in my Cessna 150. Although it is not an ultralight, it is pretty limited on panel space.

    An aspect you may find very helpful is the availability of an external antenna. I have the GPS fixed to the yoke which puts it well down inside the all metal aircraft. I do not have the external antenna but I have never lost GPS signals nor ever gotten a warning due to weak signals. There are several methods available for mounting so the positioning and vibration issues should be easy to resolve. Map updates are very reasonable as well.

    Check it out at http://ifly.adventurepilot.com/HOME.aspx . No, I do not work for the company. It is a good unit that works well and is more affordable than many alternatives I had to choose from. I just thougth I would share the help.

    I will sell you my 700 ( 5 months old ) because I am upgrading mine to the newer 720 model. This will help you keep the cost down.

    Check it out. If you like it then give a reply.

    Frank

  4. #14

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    Thanks, Jerry

    The batteries in my unit are built-in and can only be replaced in a lab. Also, the antenna is internal and there's isn't even an external antenna socket. In case not enough satelites are seen, e.g., inside the hangar, the unit doesn't freeze--it displays a message "No Satelite Reception," but the map can still be moved around and all non-GPS functions still work. That wasn't the case when one of those problems I described popped up.

    One more attempt before I give up this device for flying is doing what you said: remove it from the dashboard and strap it to my arm or lap. It isn't very convenient, though, and it might reduce the freedom of operating the controls.

  5. #15
    Not sure what kind of phone that you have but this works pretty good as a back-up. Mounting so that you don't lose it...well that's another story. http://inavigator.leosh.com/Home.html

  6. #16

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    Rolls Eyes Tried one in a 172

    First unit that I purchased was as an experiment to see if I could use a handheld unit designed for the outdoors type person (hunting, backpacking)as a backup to the aircraft equipment. It had all kinds of problems in the aircraft. I contacted the manufacturer who routed me to an engineer. They stated that under no circumstances is a handheld GPS recommended by thier company for use in an aircraft. That said (to cover thier butt), I asked a few hypothetical questions. It seems that you need to look at how often or fast the unit reads the signal from a satlite. Speed and distance then play a part in the equation. If your ground spead is too fast for the unit, by the time it reads where you are at, you are now someplace else, it becomes confused, tired and frustrated, so eventually "gives up" trying to read the signal.

  7. #17

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    Thanks, Avinuts
    That's why I don't have the audacity to claim a faulty unit replacement from the supplier, because I clearly use it outside of its intended envelope. Anyway, the fact that I was successfully using it for many flight hours before it began to give me trouble tells me the device's performance limitations are not the issue. By the way, at 80 mph--my normal cruising speed--cars on the freeway do pass me.

  8. #18
    cluttonfred's Avatar
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    Another option you might consider, the Gipsi voice-based GPS, no screen, just a synthesized voice in your headset when you want it, keeps your eyes up and scanning instead of down in the cockpit. I wrote the article below but have no connection to the manufacturer other than thinking it's a neat product.

    A Gipsi for your FRED?
    www.gipsinavigation.com
    *******
    Matthew Long, Editor
    cluttonfred.info
    A site for builders, owners and fans of Eric Clutton's FRED
    and other safe, simple, affordable homebuilt aircraft

  9. #19
    Dana's Avatar
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    I've been using a Garmin handheld GPS (60Csx) for flying for several years now. It works quite well, and even has a "glide angle" display aimed at the hang glider market. I put an airport database into it, and even rudimentary airspace.

    I understand that some Magellan units have a 100 mph limitation, though.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    I've been using a Garmin handheld GPS (60Csx) for flying for several years now. It works quite well, and even has a "glide angle" display aimed at the hang glider market. I put an airport database into it, and even rudimentary airspace.

    I understand that some Magellan units have a 100 mph limitation, though.
    I have a recent Garmin Nüvi that seems to have a speed limit with respect to saving tracks. I used it on a jet- I could see the track on the unit but I couldn't down load it. The screen updated correctly. I don't know what the lower speed limit for recording tracks, but an ultralight at 80 MPH should be fine. This is one reason I keep my Garmin V- works fine at all speeds.

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