Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 74

Thread: Marvel Mystery Oil?

  1. #21
    Max Torque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Arizona, Alaska, and various other places around the globe
    Posts
    50
    martymayes, I think you made a typo - did you mean MSDS instead of TCDS?
    "You have to be alive to spend it..."

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clarklake, MI
    Posts
    2,461
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Torque View Post
    martymayes, I think you made a typo - did you mean MSDS instead of TCDS?
    I think you are right.

  3. #23
    Sirota's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    166
    I started adding MMO to my fuel on the suggestion of my IA to lubricate my fuel valve. 2 valve "overhauls" in the first 2 years I owned the plane. None in the 3 years since. I don't know if it boils off during combustion but it sure seems to help my valve.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    1,342
    Not sure I know any more than anyone else who has posted to this thread, but I will offer some observations from a lot of years watching various folks care for, or abuse their engines.

    As noted earlier, for many years we ran radials on mineral oil not AD oil. And we had only screens on the air intake and for the oil. No filters. You gets lots of deposits and sludge. Adding a solvent to those engines helps clean them up. Today we can buy AD oils that are better. You can add an oil filter. Still no air filters. So Marvel Mystery Oil was an improvement to straight weight mineral oil in the engine. Today, a poster observed that a lot of additive packages are gone in some number of hours. But folks want to to 50 hour oil changes and wait to 2000 hrs to overhaul. Hmmm.... sounds like adding something to refresh the additive package is a good idea. Is MMO the right answer? Don't know but do nothing might be a bad idea too.

    The Lyco camshaft additive is greatly misunderstood. The camshaft works pretty hard and Lyco chose to locate it where it does not get as much splash lube from the crank as it sometimes needs. The cam additive puts some stuff on the cam that is represented to have better high pressure wear surface properties. You do not need this in a Continental as the camshaft is located where it gets more lube (under the crank). So if your Continental starter adapter does not like the Lyco cam lube, don't buy it. I find it amusing how many folks think that Continentals and Lycos are interchangeable and can be care for, fed, and operated the same. They have different needs and personalities and if you want to run them out to or beyond TBO, you had best learn their individual strengths and weaknesses.

    Getting back to MMO, there are lots of parts between the fuel tank and combustion chamber that can benefit from a few of the ingredients in MMO. Valves live a very hard life and every little ingredient that can clean carbon off of the valve seat and valves is a good thing. Don't know if MMO is the right answer but I have observed that O-200, C-145 and O-300 operators have fewer of the problems that occur with the top end of those engines when they use MMO in the fuel and oil. Never understood why, but the observation is persistent and the owners of these engines that often need early cylinder work seemed to go longer before having to spend those $$.

    For what its worth, I have never used MMO in anything, but I run my engines as hard as the Lyco and Continental factory manuals allow, exactly as those manuals specify( Note: I follow the engine manufacturers procedures, not the airframe manufacturer's info). The engines that I see have problems are most often flight school engines that spend a lot of time at low power settings, and owners that try to economize by flying with the throttle back and the engine running cool. Its is actually better for an engine to run hard so long as you manage the temps properly. I think that Mr. Busch has written a lot about that topic.

    Best of luck,

    Wes
    N78PS
    Last edited by WLIU; 04-01-2012 at 06:39 PM.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oak Harbor Wa
    Posts
    400
    Maybe we should invite Ed Kollin at cam guard to come over and talk. he was on AOPA for a while.

  6. #26
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Oshkosh, Wi
    Posts
    361
    Quote Originally Posted by martymayes View Post
    According to the MSDS, MMO contains mineral spirits, not mineral oil. Mineral spirits is a solvent. MMO still claim the actual ingredients remain a "mystery" ya, right. Modern chemistry is stumped by this product..lol.

    MMO has a boiling point of ~170F (depending on which MSDS is correct) so dilute your engine oil with MMO and what happens? When the engine reaches normal operating temperatures, MMO boils off and is gone. Probably leaves some residual trace contamination in the oil. So when one hears a claim that MMO provides long term engine protection between oil changes (and the reality suggests it exits the engine breather or exhaust pipe in the first 15 min. of engine operation), some skepticism about that claim may be warranted. Perhaps another marvelous "mystery" ingredient suspends the laws of physics.....? I dunno.

    Another issue, MMO flash point is close to kerosene. So mixed in with fuel at the ratio of 1-2 oz per gallon, or roughly 100:1, perhaps slows down the combustion process by 1/1,000,000 of a second? That makes the engine run noticeable smoother, cooler, more power, etc.? Really? And since it quickly burns up during the combustion process, not sure what hangs around to "lubricate" upper cylinder components. Seems like whatever function MMO claims to provide as a fuel additive could be duplicated close enough with kerosene or diesel. Regulating bodies will classify it as fuel contamination but what the hey.

    The credibility of 99% of MMO testimonials rank right up there with the urban legend about the car with a 50mpg carburetor. We wanna believe it's true......and it's tough getting through the initial denial stage. Kinda like when reality convinces a kid the easter bunny, tooth fairy and santa clause are not real even though his parents perpetuated this myth for the first several yrs of his life. It's tough to let go.
    Hey Marty,
    MSDS sheets only list "hazardous" ingredients typically, and not nearly the complete chemical makeup. The bulk of MMO is selected mineral oil base stocks.
    -Aaron

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    3
    If you want to pour something in your crankcase to dissolve sludge then a batter choice might be something that is designed to operate in that environment like 2-stroke oil.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,575
    Wes writes "still no air filters" . Why not? I don't know of very many planes that don't come with air filters from the factory, and I can't think of any new car in years built without air flliters. I can never understand why anyone would want to run an expensive engine, on the ground or in the air while sucking in raw dirt, whether factory of homebuilt. Especially since there are now such good filters available, paper or foam.
    Way back in the 40's top fighters like Mustangs and Spitfires came with air filters, sort of a compressed element, not perfect but much better than nothing.
    About late 50s Chrysler was factory racing with stock cars on dirt oval tracks. They found a 300 hp engine might lose 50 hp over the course of a race from sucking dirt in the straight open intakes, no filters., thus a lot of ring wear and loss of power. So they developed the paper air filter and it has been available for 50 years, and now we have even better foam ones.

    I have seen some P-51 pilots who will go on ad inftinty about some techno gadget in the cockpit, probably now a debate about using I pd 3 or Ipad 4. Yet they fly their multimillion dollar 51 with the $100,000 engine with no, that is none, air filters. Some say it makes it easier to do plug changes. Meanwhile you can bet that whatever car they drove to the airport, even some cheap made stuff, has an air filter to preserve it's $6000 engine.
    They may tell you they only fly in clean air. If you belive that, when you come home after spending a day at the airport , get a clean white washcloth and wipe off your arms and the back of your neck, see what that white looks like after that. And an engine sucks in a lot more air than your skin encounters.
    I know one Merlin engine builder that owns a 51, and he sure has filters on his own plane. I think Jack Roush has filters also,and most T-6s seems to also.

  9. #29
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Oshkosh, Wi
    Posts
    361
    Quote Originally Posted by jhw View Post
    If you want to pour something in your crankcase to dissolve sludge then a batter choice might be something that is designed to operate in that environment like 2-stroke oil.
    Nooooooo never add a 2-cycle oil to your crankcase, many times the additive packages dont "Play Well" together.

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oak Harbor Wa
    Posts
    400
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    Nooooooo never add a 2-cycle oil to your crankcase, many times the additive packages dont "Play Well" together.
    if you have been running a good AD oil, what will happen when you pour in a qt of 2 cycle oil?

    IMHO nothing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •