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Thread: OSH arrivals

  1. #41
    Jim Hann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Halloran View Post
    the only things I hate about AirVenture---my face hurts the whole time from muscle spasms because I have this huge smile on my face as soon as I get within 30 miles of Oshkosh
    And the way my feet hurt after 7 or 8 days of walking the grounds
    Kevin
    Kevin, you don't smile until within 30 miles? And ONLY 7 or 8 days of walking? Heck, I smile like a dum bass as soon as I pull out of the driveway with the camper and stay until I'm walking on my ankle bones (I think my record is 11 days!)

    My summer and funds are still up in the air, but I am going to do my best to be there again as I've only missed two since 1995, we moved in 1998 and my youngest showed up three months early in 2009. See ya there!
    Jim Hann
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  2. #42
    Rick Rademacher's Avatar
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    The Notam for AirVenture 2012 is now on theAirVenture site http://www.airventure.org/flying/2012_notam.pdf

    One of the minor changes from last year is to present both knots and MPH on one chart so that everyone knows 90 knots is equal to 104 MPH. Again, please note that many J-3 Cubs will be using the Fisk approach doing 70 MPH.

    The mass flight of Cubs is limited to only 75 before 7 A. M. on Sunday. So, the remaining Cubs at Hartford, numbering up to 150 will leave in groups of 4 or more using the Fisk approach from 7 A.M. to 9 A.M. that same morning. Everyone will want to be on the ground at Oshkosh around the same time.

    Remember, if you can’t stay behind Cubs doing 70 M.PH, no “S-turning” and you should return to the end of the line. Sorry, that’s the rules per the Notam.
    Last edited by Rick Rademacher; 05-03-2012 at 09:29 PM.

  3. #43
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like the Cub people are trying to be very accommodating by concentrating the majority of their arrivals into a small period of time during and after their mass arrival. Certainly those of us who hear about that can easily avoid that time period. Of course, compared to the number of people flying the Fisk approach on Sunday, the fraction of those that read this thread is about zero percent, so some conflicts and aggravation are to be expected. EAA and each of us can help by getting the word out as best we can.

  4. #44

    Low speed arrival

    I have often wondered why there is not a low speed arrival at Oshkosh? I have brought my Taylorcraft BC65 twice and both times had aircraft overtake and pass me inbound on the arrival. The first time a Bonanza passed over head by less than 50 feet, I'm sure he never saw me. Since then I fly the arrival 200 feet low to keep from getting run over. There is another thread that questions where all the antique airplanes are ? The answer is, we have been told we are not welcome by the EAA arrival notam. How about a 70 kt arrival at 1600 ft ?

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Petro View Post
    I have often wondered why there is not a low speed arrival at Oshkosh?
    That is a good question. Seems like it would be just as important to separate the slower aircraft as it is the ones that use the Turbine arrival. It would be awesome if they could open up another arrival path and use the pioneer airport runway for slow or antique aircraft. Although you'd have to add in a bunch of sod replacement work to the budget every year for that.

    I'm not sure that you can get the 500' separation in altitude needed for a lower flight level on the approach without getting into the towers. I wonder if you could call the ultralight barn and get permission to use the ultralight runway (~1000' long).

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Petro View Post
    ...Since then I fly the arrival 200 feet low...
    Quote Originally Posted by rawheels View Post
    I'm not sure that you can get the 500' separation in altitude needed for a lower flight level on the approach without getting into the towers.
    first, i've only flown to KOSH for the show three times. once during the evening rush in an AA5, twice at mid-morning in a Mustang II homebuilt. twice in the low line, second time in the MII in the high. i studied the NOTAM and the chart beforehand, carried them open to the proper place, flew as published, looked out the canopy, and corrected for the excursions of creative PICs around me. study. plan. think. do. no unsolvable problems. 99% of all aviators think they're above average, and if you don't believe me make up your own statistic.

    500' LOWER flight arrival path? now, lemme get this through my stupid head. published arrival procedure is 1800' msl and some of us are thinking - writing - about flying lower altitudes? like, fly 200' below the published altitude? field elevation KOSH is 800' msl. i'm a bit slow on math, but i think 1800' msl minus 800' msl equals 1000' agl, which is the minimum CFR 14 pt 91.119 altitude allowable over towns like ripon, settlements like fisk, and open-air assemblies of persons like the friendly aviation advisors at the checkpoints under the route? i might not have written that i willfully violated the CFR, ignored the NOTAM, and intended to do it again. but that's just me.

    back to the original question, my input as to how we can stop this dangerous activity - fly the procedures as published.

    be heads-up about the potential conflicts over ripon due to PICs flying the rush lake hold too wide while green lake hold entries are flown too late. also the heightened collision hazards as both groups rejoin the stream while looking cross-cockpit for arrivals and simultaneously try to track the plane they're following and time the rollout into trail. the rush lake re-entry track is prone to be a bit sharper than a right-angle turn, too, a bit more head-on. be honest about your proficiency, practice slow flight maneuvering before your trip if necessary; stay within your limitations. think. act. remember what Christ knows, we're all sinners - so expect it, work around it, and be forgiving.

    PS look out the WINDOWS all the fancy expensive anti-collision gear won't work because the xpdrs are all in STANDBY.
    Last edited by cdrmuetzel@juno.com; 05-07-2012 at 09:15 AM.

  7. #47
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawheels View Post
    I wonder if you could call the ultralight barn and get permission to use the ultralight runway (~1000' long).
    I would hope not. The ultralight runway is for ultralights. They have their problems too.

  8. #48

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    If you are really that worried about flying into Oshkosh, you can go to FLD 18 miles south, leave your plane there, and for about $10 take the bus that runs every hour down to the transportation center at EAA, west of the tower, near the middle of most things.

    And as for as antiques, I don't think there is anything against them in the notam, I'd bet on it. There is an arrival just for the no radio planes.

    It does make good sense that if you are flying something real slow to perhaps try to do your arrival first thing in the morning or some off peak time.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 05-07-2012 at 01:54 PM.

  9. #49
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    Hey, they did put a cub on the cover of the NOTAM!

    The NORDO is a lot different than it used to be. After some abuses, they made it so you have to call right before you want to use it to get the procedure.

    But hey, I can't fly the FISK arrival as stated. 90 Knots is 3 knots above my gear speed. So I can either fly it at 87 with the gear down, or 90 with the gear up.

    (of course I can just keep the gear up and blast in on the Warbird arrival

  10. #50
    Rick Rademacher's Avatar
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    The EAA is using the mass flight of Cubs to AirVenture for the 75th anniversary of the J-3 Cub as a headline event. They are encouraging Cubs to fly in. They are making arrangements for a very large number of Cubs to be at Oshkosh.

    The Cub Club volunteered to have Hartford as a staging area for the short flight into Oshkosh. So, most Cubs will stop at Hartford in preparation for the mass flight.

    Yet, the EAA will only allow 75 Cubs to participate in a Dawn Patrol flight before 7 A.M. on Sunday. And, they have done little if anything, other than the picture of a Cub on the Notam to highlight to other pilots to be watchful of ten times the number of slow aircraft flying at 70 MPH, not 104 MPH that will then be using the Fisk approach.

    I feel like a one man band trying to sound the alert. Although my new HERO2 GoPro will be recording my flight, I will forgive all sinners as long as they don’t hit me, my little friends or any other aircraft.

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