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Thread: OSH arrivals

  1. #11
    FlyingRon's Avatar
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    Rush Lake is the hold point for the RIPON-to-FISK transition.
    There are idiots everywhere. I've been behind a 182 that hasn't quite got the concept of 90 knots as the target speed, then there was this guy:

    IDIOT: Bonanza 35X four mile south.
    OSH: Are you IFR?
    IDIOT: No.
    OSH: Do you have the NOTAM?
    IDIOT: No.
    OSH: (with a resigned sigh) Make straight-in for 36L.
    IDIOT: Which one is 36L
    OSH: It's the big long one with the numbers on the end and the dotted line down the middle.

  2. #12
    TeenDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmcgrew View Post
    ...On the ground I sat in the plane refelected on the past 45 minutes. What should have been a simple procedure (I am Inst. rated) turned into a nightmare for ONE very simple reason. MORON pilots that think the rules and procedures are meant for others. I know other pilots have experienced this same thing and some of you will no doubt post your hair raising experience...

    ...I would also like to have some input (from the good guys) as to how we can stop this dangerous activity.
    Michael,

    I can sympathize with you and can say, based on personal experience, that you're not alone. What I'm gonna write now is intended as a simple advice from one pilot to another.

    As you realized it by yourself, no matter how much work the FAA and EAA put into designing, implementing and monitoring procedures, ultimately it is up to individual pilots to make the right decision and fly within safe parameters. Unfortunately, that is not the reality.

    That it is why I personally choose to fly into Oshkosh as part of one of the mass arrival groups. My group is Cessnas 2 Oshkosh, but the other groups follow similar procedures. I strongly recommend the mass arrival with the group because it is predictable and safer. Each pilot in the mass arrival flight has trained and practiced for it. Each pilot knows exactly what the other pilots in the group, those in his same element, and those in the rest of the flight, will be doing and when. In addition, we practice contingency procedures, in case something doesn't go as planned.

    I invite you to check out our website http://www.cessnas2oshkosh.com even if you are not a Cessna driver. I'm also available by phone. My number is in the Contact Us page of our website.

    I don't know how to solve the "MORON" pilot issue. I haven't been able to solve it at my local airport either. I just look out for them and steer away when I see them, and try to avoid the places and times where and when they are known to be.
    Last edited by TeenDoc; 03-26-2012 at 08:44 AM.

  3. #13

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    That does sound like a bad experience. Seems like the first time is always exciting, I remember the spacing getting too tight on our first run because of someone at the higher/faster level "fitting in" at the wrong moment and then having to go back and restart our run too. Oh well, it happens. In nearly a decade of flying in we've had very little real trouble, but you do have to be vigilant. Don't give up.

    The worst experience was when the airport was closed because of a crash and we had to circle the lake. Pilots can be such whiners and tattlers; had to exit the holding pattern for fuel, but I wasn't too sad about it.

    The controllers are saints. Like FlyingRon, I remember someone coming in and calling 5 miles from the airport, totally unaware of the procedures. After the controller asked if the guy had the NOTAM, he said he had forgotten it at the last FBO. It was very obvious he never had it, as once you've printed it I don't think anyone would think they could glance at it on the way in. Amazingly the controller stepped him through the whole thing; What he probably should have done was to tell him to go back to Madison or somewhere and get the NOTAM before coming back!

    Another time they were landing us on 36L&R and a Waco that landed right in front of me on 36R stopped on the runway and was determined that he was going to taxi directly to show center as opposed to taxiing to the end of the runway like the controller was repeatedly & excitedly telling him to do. I ended up doing a go around and the controller put me right in for another landing with a big thank you. Great bunch of people up there!

  4. #14
    I've flown into Oshkosh for the last 17 years--only had a problem once. A guy in a funk decided to skip RIPON and cut in front of our Baron at Fisk--after missing him by 20 feet--went back to Ripon and started over. We decided to find the guy after we landed and "talk" to him. BUT the airplane Gods had already taken care of him---saw him by the runway with a messed up wing where he had ground looped

    I now come in on thursday before AirVenture starts. Always come in on a IFR flight plan ( helped when we had the heavy rain in 2010--tower could not see us after we landed).
    We hit the ground running getting stuff ready for B2OSH --Take 4 or 5 truck loads of camping gear from the storage lockers to the north 40 camp grounds, and arrange for the welcome party.
    The formation groups are by far the safest, and best way to come into Oshkosh--Its also the quickest way to land over 100 planes and to get them parked.
    The formation groups are also the best way to meet some great people and to develop some life long friends
    Anyone who comes in with one of the formation groups will tell you they come to Oshkosh because its a great way to see old friends--the planes, airshow, vendors are just icing on the cake
    Kevin

  5. #15
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    Rush Lake is the hold point for the RIPON-to-FISK transition.
    There are idiots everywhere. I've been behind a 182 that hasn't quite got the concept of 90 knots as the target speed, then there was this guy:

    IDIOT: Bonanza 35X four mile south.
    OSH: Are you IFR?
    IDIOT: No.
    OSH: Do you have the NOTAM?
    IDIOT: No.
    OSH: (with a resigned sigh) Make straight-in for 36L.
    IDIOT: Which one is 36L
    OSH: It's the big long one with the numbers on the end and the dotted line down the middle.
    Honestly, given the number of idiots that strut their stuff annually, I'm surprised we don't have more crashes and that the FAA doesn't suspend or revoke more tickets at Oshkosh. LOL
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  6. #16
    Rick Rademacher's Avatar
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    I believe that Rick Durban said it all in his AVweb Oshkosh Arrival -- Let's Stay Alive This Year in 2008
    http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/pilots_lounge_128_oskhosh_arrival_198208-1.html

    If there is no slow plane arrival procedure this year, please be on the lookout for many, many J-3 Cubs flying at 61 knots using the standard Fisk approach. As the mass arrival for Cubs is limited to 75 aircraft and as it takes place at 5 P.M. on Monday, most of the Cubs will be arriving in groups of two or more on Saturday or Sunday from Hartford. We can only approach 90 knots in a power dive with the wings about to depart the aircraft.

    We J-3 Cub owners can only dream about doing this ->
    Last edited by Rick Rademacher; 03-26-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  7. #17
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Rademacher View Post
    We J-3 Cub owners can only dream about doing this ->
    LOL Nice....

    Speaking of dreams, my dream involves something like this (only with something smaller than a 737 and with a reciprocating engine):

    or something like this but not so slow in cruise:
    Last edited by steveinindy; 03-26-2012 at 12:04 PM.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  8. #18
    TeenDoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Halloran View Post
    The formation groups are also the best way to meet some great people and to develop some life long friends
    Anyone who comes in with one of the formation groups will tell you they come to Oshkosh because its a great way to see old friends...
    Amen to that Kevin!

  9. #19
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Stadler View Post
    Wow, Michael, the account of your only flight to AirVenture is certainly colorful, dramatic, and disturbing. My own experiences have been quite different.
    Mine too. In 8-10 times flying that approach I've had two minor problems. One when the controller at Fisk asked me if I and the aircraft behind me were "a flight" which told me he was way too close. I never saw him. The other time the aircraft I was following just plain flew off someplace, never turned final for 18 like he was supposed to. Eventually I gave up following him and turned final myself. Not a big deal. Every other time it's gone very smoothly even when there was lots of traffic.

    I think you have to be realistic that there will be a few idiots out of the thousands that fly the Fisk approach every year. Credit the vast majority of pilots with adequate skill, concern and consideration, and credit the controllers with more than adequate skill and enormous patience, all of which together make it work.

  10. #20

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    Rick,you have been breathing too many Jet A fumes. "61 knots, 90 knots"? No real Cub ( that is built by Piper in the 30s or 40s) flys at any knots, anymore than a real Ford Model T goes 50 kilometers an hour.

    A real J3, like mine will cruise about 70mph, stall at 38 indicated for landing,and will go 100 mph in a dive. I use about 100 for entry to do a loop, seem to remember VNE is 122 mph, but don't have the data in front of me as the plane is in the shop. I probably will not have it back for Osh, have to arrive in brand B unless there is anyone that needs a co pilot.But I'll be watching. What I'd really like to do is fly my Cub in and land on both the LSA runway and Pioneer field.

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