Plane rentals at $27 while inspiring others to fly

[WingsAloft]

It seems to me that, of those of us who are both unrich and not the happy owners of a plane, that many times we are driving by and not into the local airport more often than we'd want to think about. But I have an idea that I'm confident most of you have thought out yourselves: The Piper Warrior at DAN rents out at $110 an hour. That's alot for any one person to pay. Now, for a 40 min flight, with the cost split between four people, did you know it would only be $18? Soooooo....why not let the public in on this opportunity? Couldn't you print out some homemade flyers saying something like "Hey, I'm a FAA certified pilot offering $15 plane rides! Have you ever seen Anytown from the air before? Now is your chance!" Leave a stack for people to take, at Kroger, Dick's sporting goods, your church, wherever. Maybe your flyer could advertize a dedicated twitter account or something. You could have a picture of yourself beside your favorite rental, and maybe some aerial shots, too. Obviously you can't take the whole town flying, so maybe you could say something like, "Reserve your seat now! Seats fill up fast!" or "Nine seats available this Saturday! Email me to reserve yours" with people emailing (or tweeting, etc.) you to let you know they're coming, on a first come, first serve basis. Well, it's an idea, and if it works out, you will get a major break with rental costs, while disabusing the public of certain notions, maybe even sparking the desire to fly among dozens of people! Or save your airport! What could be better that that?

[Joe LaMantia]

It's a nice idea, but I think you may need a Commercial License to do this even though your not making a profit. I'd run this through a few experts before running an ad, if your able to pull this off let me know. I fly our club Archer for $100/hr, so I could "charge" $25 a seat and increase my flight time by 75%!

Joe

[WingsAloft]

I agree about first seeking an expert's opinion. I think in order to make this work, the means of getting the word out would have to be extremely informal. I was thinking along the lines of the same way people advertize their yard sales, homemade print-outs from home computers, flyers taped onto telephone poles, handouts to the church youth group, etc. And I would absolutelty state I AM NOT A COMMERCIAL OPERATOR---I AM A PRIVATE PILOT.

[WingsAloft]

If we can maneuver this into being common knowlege among the community that "there's always some group of pilots at the local airport, who are more than willing to take people for rides for just ten bucks", then people might just show up with junior at the airport instead of wasting money at the cinema.

[martymayes]

As of 2007, the FAA has overhauled the reg requirements to conduct sightseeing flights. See FAR 91.147. Because you are advertising, they are going to apply the FAR Part 110 definition and label your operation "commercial air tour." You'll have to apply for an LOA from the FSDO. Flights will have to be conducted within a 25sm radius, a commercial pilot certificate is required, drug testing is required and you'll need to list the aircraft you plan to use and comply with maintenance requirements. Since you indicated you'll be renting, the operator will have to be okay with this.

If you want to do this as a private pilot and pro-rata sharing of expenses, you'll have to drop the advertising, even the "word of mouth" type. Even then you'll be walking on thin ice if the FAA investigates.

[WingsAloft]

As of 2007, the FAA has overhauled the reg requirements to conduct sightseeing flights. See FAR 91.147. Because you are advertising, they are going to apply the FAR Part 110 definition and label your operation "commercial air tour." You'll have to apply for an LOA from the FSDO. Flights will have to be conducted within a 25sm radius, a commercial pilot certificate is required, drug testing is required and you'll need to list the aircraft you plan to use and comply with maintenance requirements. Since you indicated you'll be renting, the operator will have to be okay with this.

If you want to do this as a private pilot and pro-rata sharing of expenses, you'll have to drop the advertising, even the "word of mouth" type. Even then you'll be walking on thin ice if the FAA investigates.

I just read the regulations, and they don't seem to affect what I'm planning to do. It seems to affect only flights for compensation or hire, and I am not seeking compensation or hire. Neither is this a sight seeing flight. I guess the FAA is more twisted than I thought. I appreciate the warning, though.

[WingsAloft]

. Because you are advertising, they are going to apply the FAR Part 110 definition and label your operation "commercial air tour." .

But what if I tell people up-front and in my flyers that I will not charge anyone anything, that they can pay me out of the goodness of their heart?

[martymayes]

I just read the regulations, and they don't seem to affect what I'm planning to do. It seems to affect only flights for compensation or hire, and I am not seeking compensation or hire.

In your original post your proposed advertising pitch was "I'm a FAA certified pilot offering $15 plane rides!" which is providing a service (plane ride) for a fee ($15). In the aviation world, the exchange of money for the flight is called compensation and operating for hire. The FAA considers advertising (printed flyers) a form of "holding out" which essentially means you are willing to carry the general public in your airplane for a fee. That makes you a commerical operator.

Neither is this a sight seeing flight. I guess the FAA is more twisted than I thought. I appreciate the warning, though.

If the purpose is other than sightseeing, then your operation will fall under a different set of commercial operating rules that are even more stringent. After all, you're still charging to ride in a plane. For example, if you're planning on "holding out" flights for "mile high club" activities, or traveling further than 25sm or landing at an airport different from the point of departure, you'll be required to operate under Part 135 and get a ATCO certificate. Your intent or description is not relevant, if the flying activity fits an FAA definition, that's what it is and how it's classified.

If you want to erase the commercial aspects of the flights you propose, you can not advertise and there must be some kind of previous relationship with your passengers. They can't be strangers that showed up because they heard you give plane rides in exchange for the monetary compensation of $15. So your proposal is a great idea if you tell 3 of your work associates that you are going flying this weekend and they can come along and equally share the expense. That also erases the 25sm geographical boundary and requirement to land at at the same airport you departed from.

I'm not trying to poo-poo on your party but the FAA has handed out 91.147 violations like AOL trial memberships since the rules changed in 2007. If you end up on the receiving end of a violation you'd probably quit flying and aviation has lost another participant.

[martymayes]

But what if I tell people up-front and in my flyers that I will not charge anyone anything, that they can pay me out of the goodness of their heart?

Then you'll be giving away a lot of free plane rides and the FAA will still violate you.

This is from FAR 110. Pay close attention to #8. If they smell a fish, they can fry it -if in their opinion something fishy is going on.



The FAA may consider the following factors in determining whether a flight is a commercial air tour:

• (1) Whether there was a holding out to the public of willingness to conduct a sightseeing flight for compensation or hire;
  (2) Whether the person offering the flight provided a narrative that referred to areas or points of interest on the surface below the route of the flight;
  (3) The area of operation;
  (4) How often the person offering the flight conducts such flights;
  (5) The route of flight;
  (6) The inclusion of sightseeing flights as part of any travel arrangement package;
  (7) Whether the flight in question would have been canceled based on poor visibility of the surface below the route of the flight; and (8) Any other factors that the FAA considers appropriate.

[WingsAloft]

Marty Mayes, this has been a fruitful discussion.