Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: SNF vs Copperstate?

  1. #1
    brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    SNF vs Copperstate?

    Last year, my wife & I tried to fly from NH to Copperstate (VFR). We got as far as southwest Indiana, then got bogged down in bad weather & burned up a few of our allocated days there, until we ended up spending a couple more days dodging weather getting back to NH. We'd hoped to try it again this year, but now I'm realizing that, to allocate a full 2 weeks of vacation this time to make it there and back means I have to choose between our planned trip to AirVenture in a few weeks and going to Copperstate, especially since I already flew to SNF this spring.

    So, my question is about Copperstate and how much effort it's going to be worth getting there. I realize it isn't going to compare to AirVenture Oshkosh, but I'm wondering how it'll compare to SNF, which I'm familiar with. How long does it take to see & do everything at Copperstate? My thinking is that, if I can see most everything at Copperstate in, say, one day, then that makes it less worth the large window of vacation time I'll need to allocate to get there & back VFR. But if I'll need all 3 days to see & do everything, that'll make it more worth it.

    Can people give me some idea as to what to expect at Copperstate, especially as compared to SNF?
    Brian Meyette, Cornish, NH
    1995 RV-6A - N16RK (Ralph Koger)
    RV-7A - incomplete, supercharged Subaru STi - N432MM
    - SOLD
    2001 Quad City Challenger II LW - N28RT
    www.meyette.us/RV-7Ahome.htm

  2. #2
    Eric Page's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Toledo, WA
    Posts
    316
    I've never been to Sun-N-Fun so I can't compare, but I live about an hour's drive from Casa Grande and have been to Copperstate a couple of times. The last time I went, I had breakfast at home, lunch at the show, and dinner on the way home. I didn't feel like I missed anything I wanted to see, and I attended a short intro to composites seminar.

    Unless you want to attend a lot of seminars and need more than one day to do that, you can easily see what there is to see in one day; less if a particular section doesn't interest you. It's well run, but it's not a huge show. Judging from the magazine coverage of Sun-N-Fun, Copperstate is nowhere near its size.
    Eric Page
    Building: Kitfox 5 Safari | Rotax 912iS | Dynon HDX
    Member: EAA Lifetime, AOPA, ALPA
    ATP: AMEL | Comm: ASEL, Glider | ATCS: CTO
    Map of Landings

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,575
    It has been a few years since I went to either, but I think Sun N Fun or Osh has a lot more to offer than Copperstate.
    First, Phoenix is a hot, dry, polluted, and except for irrigation, mostly barren area. It is a big city, with all the ills, traffic and crime of big cites. Copperstate is not in Phoenix ,but nearby. Osh, is a nice green place, with with lakes and a river. Peopel might and do come there to vacation even without airplanes. Lakeland is less so, but still not a dusty and barren as Az.
    Of coures. both Sun N Fun and Osh are week long conventions, big and bigger, (maybe too big ?) and with much to see and do.
    Years ago , when Carl Schmieder was involved, the predcesser of Copperstate had a good number of warbirds, and I enjoyed it a few years.
    After Carl passed it changed . I was told by the director that if I brought a warbird to what was then Copperstate, that there was not a parking space for me, much less any reimbursement of free room or fuel. I got the hint.
    From what I hear of Copperstate now, it has pretty much been taken over by the tight flight suit crowd, and is mostly for pay acro types.
    That is my impression, haven't been back in years. There are a number of other places that seem a lot more welcoming.

    By the way, advocates of Phoenix like to say , "but it's a dry heat". Sure, but it's dry in my microwave also and it will sure cook anything in there. 110 degreees is hot as hello, no matter wet or dry.

    I can't fathoom why anyonen the northeast would fly all the way to Az. There is a great show, weather allowing, in a nice greeen place at Geneseo, N. Y. But then again it won't "e dry heat".

    There is one attraction near Phoenix, major glider flying near there at AZ Soaring at Estrella, really good school or at least is was years ago when I was there.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 06-29-2012 at 12:31 PM.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    221
    First of all, I have to agree that Phoenix is the most despicable part of Arizona. At night, you can see the Phoenix light pollution dome from anywhere in the state of Arizona.

    However, Casa Grande is a small city (population 50,000) located 50 miles South of Phoenix so most of the ills of Phoenix, but not all, haven't permeated Casa Grande yet. Since CopperState is now held at the end of October (October 25th through the 27th this year), temperatures are far more moderate that Bill Greenwood alluded to. Last year at CopperState, the highs were in the mid 80s and lows in the mid 60s, so its really quite comfortable (Casa Grande doesn't have all of the concrete that in Phoenix holds the daytime heat and releases it at night).

    Since moving to Casa Grande, CopperState no longer resembles Bill Greenwood's recollections. Now, warbirds are welcome with CAFs B-17 showing up most years. There is no formal airshow so you can arrive and leave when you like. At most, they let the Yaks, AT-6s, Stearmans and the occasional P-51 do a low pass or two when they feel so inclinded. CopperState gets a good number of experimental, vintage and antique aircraft along with whatever people fly to come and see the show. Its probably more like the EAA Conventions that were held in Rockford and certainly no match for SNF or Oshkosh. And, yes, you can see it in one day. I have an hour and 1/2 drive to get there; if I leave at 8 AM, I can see everything, take in a forum or two, and be back home at 8 PM.
    Bill

  5. #5
    Joe Delene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    327
    Flying from NH to AZ for the Copperstate fly-in would take some dedication. If it was me I would allocate my time & flying $$$ somewhere else, unless you had other activities along the way. Nothing against going, just seems like more bang for your aviation buck is available closer to home.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,575
    Well, I as I said I have not been to Casa Grande, and I wasn't sure how far south of Phx it was. But I have been to Estrella and it is hot as a fresh cooked pizza. Now for the idea the CGZ is cooler than Phx, I just looked up the SA report and it is now ( 4:45 Co. time) officially 108 there.,and to me that is pretty hot, even if it is a "dry heat". The idea that you can go to PHX and then some farther south and be cooler sounds dubious to me.

    Now, maybe just maybe, in Oct a cold wave comes through and it gets below 90, at least at night, but I have flown gliders near there , spring and fall, and the only time I recall it not being hot was when there was a flash flood.

    The year that I was informally deinvited to Copperstate,the explanation was that they didn't have any more money as most of what they had was going to a local guy who was said to be a big star in the for pay acro world. I don't recall his name, but I'd barely heard of him then and don't think he has become world champion yet, as far as I know. But he sure did have good P R.

    When Carl was part of the staff, we had some really good times there, on and off the flying part, and there were some real veterans that were famous beyond the range of their own mirrors. I recall one night talking at lenght with a member of the "Black Sheep" Corsair pilots.

    There are some nice folks at the CAF base at Mesa, Falcon Field, and Chandler is a nice airport. I can't say anything good about the local sheriff, however.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Well, I as I said I have not been to Casa Grande, and I wasn't sure how far south of Phx it was. But I have been to Estrella and it is hot as a fresh cooked pizza. Now for the idea the CGZ is cooler than Phx, I just looked up the SA report and it is now ( 4:45 Co. time) officially 108 there.,and to me that is pretty hot, even if it is a "dry heat".
    I don't live anywhere near there, but it is safe to say that the temperature at the end of June has very little in common with the temperature at the end of October. According to the almanac at weatherunderground.com, the average high temperature for October 25 (the start date of the fly-in this year) is 78 degrees F, and the average low temperature is 51 degrees F. The record high for that date is 91 degrees, and the record low is 44 degrees. Doesn't sound too bad to me.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,575
    Dear Florida John,
    if you are in Florida, not only does the heat in Az, not sound too bad , but it won't feel too bad from 1800 miles or so away.
    But it is another thing entirely if you are actually there and in it.

    Now if you believe that the high temp there in Oct is really only 91, you ought to buy some property around Phoenix. I think you can get it at a pretty good discount now. And official temperatures are taken in the shade,( if there was such a thing in a place that has almost no trees) so out on the pavement of the ramp in the blazing sun it will be perhaps 25 degrees hotter. It can actually get hot in Colorado, just had over 100 degrees a few days in Denver , a new record. But it gets down the perhaps 65 or so at night. Phoenix is the only place that I have ever been where it can and often is 105 degrees after 9 oclock at night.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 06-30-2012 at 10:52 AM.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Well, I as I said I have not been to Casa Grande, and I wasn't sure how far south of Phx it was. But I have been to Estrella and it is hot as a fresh cooked pizza. Now for the idea the CGZ is cooler than Phx, I just looked up the SA report and it is now ( 4:45 Co. time) officially 108 there.,and to me that is pretty hot, even if it is a "dry heat". The idea that you can go to PHX and then some farther south and be cooler sounds dubious to me.

    Now, maybe just maybe, in Oct a cold wave comes through and it gets below 90, at least at night, but I have flown gliders near there , spring and fall, and the only time I recall it not being hot was when there was a flash flood.

    There are some nice folks at the CAF base at Mesa, Falcon Field, and Chandler is a nice airport. I can't say anything good about the local sheriff, however.
    The temperatures I gave were the actual recorded temperature ranges during CopperState last year when it didn't get above 90 during the day and fell into the 60s at night. That's one of the reasons that they moved the dates to the end of October. Previously, CopperState was held in early October when the temperatures do get get well into the 90s and did discourage attendance. Phoenix stays hotter because it modifies the local climate, but also starts cooling (a relative term) off in October.

    As for the local sheriff, what else would you expect from Phoenix and Maricopa County? Fortunately, Casa Grande is in Pinal County, whose sheriff has his own peculiarities.
    Bill

  10. #10
    brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9
    Many thanks to you all for clarifying this for me. It's pretty clear now that a journey requiring 3 days each way, at best, to Copperstate isn't going to be the biggest bang for our vacation buck. Somehow, I'd been thinking Copperstate was like a western SNF, so I 'm glad you all pointed out that it's much smaller, can be taken in during a day, and thus isn't really worth the effort & expense of a VFR flight from NH. Maybe someday we'll get there, but this year we're going to AirVenture, where I expect to be volunteering with the Welcome Wagon again this year. Thanks to all! (trip report for our attempt last year is HERE, for anyone interested)
    Brian Meyette, Cornish, NH
    1995 RV-6A - N16RK (Ralph Koger)
    RV-7A - incomplete, supercharged Subaru STi - N432MM
    - SOLD
    2001 Quad City Challenger II LW - N28RT
    www.meyette.us/RV-7Ahome.htm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •