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Thread: Why I won't be back to Oshkosh

  1. #41
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Bill, I don't think that I have to protect myself from anything at EAA or the museum, and I've never felt threatened in any way while at our convention, but the fact is, none of us knows when or where something may happen. You are really missing the point, and not making the proper connection... it is a matter of principal, and whether or not EAA has taken a position in this matter... not simply whether or not we can carry into the museum. If our organization is playing politics with an issue that is very near and dear to some of us, there is likely to be some backlash. You don't understand that? Fine, it's not necessary that you do.

    As for the differences in where we live... I don't think people here feel that they NEED to carry a gun... in fact, we have pretty decent crime statistics. Again, the concept escapes your grasp. I don't wake up in the morning with the idea that someone violent and armed is out to get me... but I do arm myself because I enjoy exercising my rights, and I want a fighting chance if I'm approached by some whacked out meth head or car jacker. You can't relate to that? Ok, fine! Don't carry, and don't bother to comment on my desire to do so... we obviously disagree.

    Have I ever seen anyone shot... well Bill, I served in the US Army as an Infantry Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division and Southern European Task Force. I've been all over the world and witnessed scenes much more disturbing than you describe... so yeah, for what it's worth, I've experienced my share of indecency.

    How about you try having a rational conversation instead of suggesting that people that don't live exactly like you might be less capable of making sound decisions. You sound highly intolorant in your replys on this matter... speaks volumes.

    I'll ask you a similar question... of all the places that people carry guns, which is almost everywhere nowadays, are these crazy people regularly pulling their guns on you? What is your big hang up with law abiding people carrying guns?

    In the words of the great Sgt. Hulka...

    Sgt. Hulka: One of these people may save your life one day!
    John Winger: Then again... maybe we wont.
    Last edited by Hangar10; 03-19-2012 at 12:21 PM.

  2. #42
    Mark
    this is coming from another Red neck , gun carrying Oklahoman
    If EAA did NOT put up the sign--and someone did get shot--the lawyers would have a field day !!!
    PLUS--the last place I want to have to pull out my gun is in a big crowd
    Its NOT a insult for someone telling you they don't want guns on their property--its just their right--please respect it.
    AND--since most of AirAdventure is on federal land ( airport) and guns are not allowed there--its just easier to just make the whole area the same.
    Lets stop talking about this or some nut case fed is going to start making us go through metal detectors when we go through the main gate .
    Kevin

  3. #43
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Mark,
    EAA not only has its membership abroad, it also has its year round presence in OUR community. You go to someone elses country, state or county, you play by their rules. Or in other words, please respect the wishes of the people you are VISITING. I can bet you that 8 out of 10 board members are hunters of some kind, so you can be rest assured that its not some anti-gun conspiracy, I mean it is Wisconsin. Maybe another way to look at it is this, if the community that a business is part of as a whole wishes to have places like museums gun free, why should they buck the community to please a percentage of outside visitors that come for a week? Remember, you are a GUEST of our community, please act as such in all manners.

  4. #44
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Kevin, a couple of points...

    1. I'm not exactly sure on the Wisconsin carry laws, but if they are anything like most of the laws that have been passed in the majority of the country (i.e. make my day laws), the lawyers would NOT be having a field day if someone were acting in a legal manner to defend themselves. Most defense laws (like Oklahoma's Self Defense Act) side in favor of the victims nowadays in order to protect them from senseless lawsuits when they have been required to defend themselves... so let's not perpuate that BS... it's simply not true.

    2. I don't want to "pull out my gun" at all... and I really don't expect that I would ever wish I had a gun on me at Oshkosh... again, the point is being missed.

    3. You speak of rights... I am respecting EAA's rights, but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with their decisions. I am free to choose my associations based on whatever criteria I deem important to me.

    4. As for federal land... alright, let's hear it if that is the case. Like I've already stated, it's my hope that EAA's hand was forced in the matter and NOT that they have taken a side on this issue.

    Aaron... I understand that... and I've visited plenty of countries and had to abide by their rules. I lived in a foreign country for three years. Again, you guys are missing the bigger point. I'm not saying that I don't respect EAA's ability to form their own opinion and make decisions as they see fit... but as a dues paying member and active supporter, I too am allowed to assess my afiliation with any organization I am associated with, AND speak out about it if I disagree. I think that is what the entire thread was about... disappointment with EAA if they chose to say "no-guns" without provocation. I never suggested a conspiracy of any kind... again, it is just an issue that I and other members are concerned about. Why don't you guys seem to want to respect that?

    Speaking of your community... it falls within the borders of the United States and the state of Wisconsin, which has right to carry laws in place... I think I am respecting the wishes of your community, state and our country.

    Seems that you guys would just have us shut up and go away... don't voice our opposition... why, because it is YOUR community and YOUR backyard? It is OUR organization! Again, real tolorant of everyone's views.
    Last edited by Hangar10; 03-19-2012 at 02:17 PM.

  5. #45

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    If it's concealed, who knows? There's 5 pages of hype here telling the feds we need to be controlled.
    I obtained my CCL earlier this year, I never realized just how many people do carry. It's my understanding that if you do get "caught" in a place that is posted "no firearms", it's a trespassing offense. The only way to get caught, if it's concealed, is to need it. Then I wouldn't care one iota about getting caught and fined for trespassing, at least I may have a better chance of surviving to pay the fine.

  6. #46
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Mark,
    I think we are all tolerant to some degree. Trust me the point has not been missed, however you are trying to merge political clubs, and hobby clubs. True its OUR organization, however the physical location is in Oshkosh. Notice they arent saying you cant carry at your chapter meeting, only at THEIR physical location in Oshkosh.

  7. #47
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malexander View Post
    If it's concealed, who knows? There's 5 pages of hype here telling the feds we need to be controlled.
    I obtained my CCL earlier this year, I never realized just how many people do carry. It's my understanding that if you do get "caught" in a place that is posted "no firearms", it's a trespassing offense. The only way to get caught, if it's concealed, is to need it. Then I wouldn't care one iota about getting caught and fined for trespassing, at least I may have a better chance of surviving to pay the fine.
    I'm in full agreement with that malexander... but again, I'd like to know where this decision came from. If EAA is taking a position against our right to carry, I would just like to know that. If they are forced to post sineage due to the proximety to the airport, I would like to know that too. It makes a difference to me.

  8. #48
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    Mark,
    I think we are all tolerant to some degree. Trust me the point has not been missed, however you are trying to merge political clubs, and hobby clubs. True its OUR organization, however the physical location is in Oshkosh. Notice they arent saying you cant carry at your chapter meeting, only at THEIR physical location in Oshkosh.
    Aaron, I'm fully aware they aren't saying that we can't carry at our chapter meeting... that wouldn't work anyway as they have no jurisdiction here. And no, I am not trying to merge political clubs with hobby clubs. As I've stated, I'm simply interested in knowing if EAA has taken a position against our right to carry, or if they were required to. If that is seen as mixing clubs, well, no... it's one in the same as far as I'm concerned. I don't support organizations that infringe on the 2nd Amendment... period.

  9. #49
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangar10 View Post
    I am respecting EAA's rights, but it doesn't mean that I have to agree with their decisions.
    I respect EAA's rights too. And I don't agree with some of their decisions. But I do agree with this one. That's my right, too.

  10. #50
    Mike Switzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin O'Halloran View Post
    since most of AirAdventure is on federal land ( airport) and guns are not allowed there
    I really doubt if this is 100% true - have you ever seen what goes in the baggage compartments of private planes during hunting season? Again, I don't know the specifics of Wisconsin law, but I have been to several airports where people legally authorized to carry concealed were doing so both on the ramp & in the hangar area, and airport management & security were aware of it. One of these was a joint use military/civilian field that was federally owned.

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