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Thread: Why I won't be back to Oshkosh

  1. #31
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    Here in WI, seeing the " no weapons allowed" signs is common. Bars, grocery stores, schools, resturants, workplaces etc etc, basicly every building except your own house. Try not to get so worked up over the law abiding rules someone makes about THEIR property, on which you are not forced to be.
    I think everyone is quite clear on the fact that private entities, whether it be an individual or an organization, are well within their rights to establish rules based upon their beliefs. Perfectly fine, and indeed no one is forced to participate in any way. But... EAA includes people from all parts of the country, from all backgrounds, and all disciplines, and all religions, etc. Up until this point, they (we, the EAA) have remained neutral on this incredibly hot button political issue. Many apparently see it as a non-issue... others see it as one of their TOP issues... either school of thought is fine, which is what makes America great. But, when a "line in the sand" is drawn, it will cause some people to sit up and take notice.

    On one side we have people who get all worked up at the very thought of a firearm... on the other we have people who actually know the statistics where lawful carry is concerned and also know that it is extremely uncommon that a person who goes through the trouble to receive training, pay fees (taxes), go through background checks, send in photos, fingerprints, etc... would ever end up using a firearm to commit a crime.

    Anyhow, that is where the rub is... if EAA is going to tell it's law abiding members that they are not allowed to protect themselves, and in fact, that they can not be trusted with their firearms... well, it just won't go over well with a good percentage of the group. Is it that everyone carries their guns around? Not necessarily... rather it is the thought that we apparently can't even if we wanted to because EAA has picked a side... the wrong side in many people's eyes. Again, the fact remains that this position will do NOTHING to deter anyone who intends to commit a crime... nothing.

    While we are at it, we might as well ban those "dangerous" little airplanes and those enormous RVs that populate the grounds... they are potentially FAR more dangerous than a man with a gun, right? Yes... right.

  2. #32
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    One more thing... where do most shooting sprees occur? That's right... in these "gun free" zones... banks (Hollywood and Miami come to mind), post offices, court houses (St. Louis, MO... Beaumont, TX, etc.), universities and schools (many examples here, but VA Tech comes to mind), etc. Some have had law enforcement present (Gabrielle Giffords event), but that didn't stop that crazy shooter. On the other hand, I can cite numerous occasions where law abiding armed citizens have defended themselves and saved not only their own lives, but the lives of countless others.

    Why would this be? Simply put... the cowardly screwballs that intend to harm others know that the law abiding citizens are unarmed in these areas. Where do shootings NOT occur? Gun shows. Seems that if guns and gun people were the primary factors in shootings that we would have them happening all the time here in Tulsa, where we have at least one gun show every month, and the largest show in the world twice a year. Again, the facts seem to get in the way of the anti-gun crowd... sorry EAA, this is one of those decisions that is probably going to hurt a little. No, not because we can't carry into the museum, but because you just took an anti-gun stance, which was totally unnecessary.

    Crazy that we are having this debate on the EAA forums... not at all what I expected we would be talking about this week.

  3. #33
    Mike Switzer's Avatar
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    I don't have the time to research the minutiae of the new WI concealed carry law, but in most states there is no legal penalty for ignoring a "No Weapons" sign put up by a property owner, and if you are truly carrying concealed, who will know? (Of course many states have written into state law certain places where you MAY NOT carry, such as schools, churches, bars, etc, so read the fine print in the state law)

    I am always amused when I am at the local hospital, where there are very large "No Weapons" and "No Cell Phone Usage" signs and plainclothes detectives are always walking in & out with not very well concealed weapons, talking on their cell phones.

  4. #34
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    You are absolutely right Mike... and many people do ignore such requests knowing that there is no chance of criminal prosecution. Some companies have policies that prohibit their employees from protecting themselves (even down here in the wild west), but some choose to ignore those requests as well. A properly concealed weapon is exactly that... concealed and undetectable.

    It's just the principal of the matter, and the fact that EAA felt the need to take a position.

  5. #35
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Another point to keep in mind here guys, is that the grounds is not just EAA, its Winnebago County property, and some of it also Federally controlled. EAA rents the grounds for the convention, it does not own it. And as an FYI, firearms have never been allowed on airport property ( Meaning WRA ) unless carried by law enforcement.

  6. #36
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Good point Aaron. If that is the case, then I can see where we have no choice based on federal regulations. Hopefully that is what this is all about, but the museum too?

  7. #37
    Aaron Novak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangar10 View Post
    Good point Aaron. If that is the case, then I can see where we have no choice based on federal regulations. Hopefully that is what this is all about, but the museum too?
    Well,
    Every museum here in town does not allow firearms inside, I dont see why this one would be special? Keep in mind that while you guys are here for a week, others of us are here year round, and so of course the rules, regulations and general "atmosphere" will tend to follow trends in OUR area, not yours. This isnt to say one area is better than another, just different.

  8. #38
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Giger View Post
    I agree with John.

    Since learning the museum isn't "clothing optional" I too have drawn a line in the sand.
    Dare I ask...with what? :-)

    Ron Wanttaja

  9. #39
    Hangar10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Novak View Post
    Well,
    Every museum here in town does not allow firearms inside, I dont see why this one would be special? Keep in mind that while you guys are here for a week, others of us are here year round, and so of course the rules, regulations and general "atmosphere" will tend to follow trends in OUR area, not yours. This isnt to say one area is better than another, just different.
    Yes, different indeed, but if this decision was made by our organization... the organization the we support and send money to, and in some cases work hard for... well, it becomes a little more difficult to stay motivated with an organization that is in opposition to another organization that some of us also send money to and work hard for. They could well be in complete opposition.

    Hope we get some clarification on this issue. Our meeting is tonight and I know that there are several already talking about this thread.

  10. #40

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    Mark, you say "EAA is telling its members that they are not allowed to protect themselves".<br>
    First what and who is it that you think that you need to protect yourself against at EAA or the EAA museum. This ain't south Philly at night or a Miami strip club at closing time.<br>
    Can you give us the serious or violent crime rate for EAA, that would necessitate you having to protect yourself? In my 30 years experience it is the safest place in the country, not counting airplane accidents.<br> I have had lots of thoughts in many moments in many places at EAA over the 30 years, but never had one that, gosh I wish I had a gun and could shoot some of these people!
    <br>
    Next, just like that EAA doesn't allow alcohol, but you can drink yourself into a stupor elsewhere, it's all legal. And you can go to your NRA meeting or wherever else you feel you need to be armed and do so, all legal.<br>
    <br>
    I am really glad that I live in a place where most people would rather ski than shoot and where they don't feel the need to carry guns, and it is not what turns them on. <br>
    I'd hate to wake up in the morning with the idea that someone, violent and armed was out to get me and I had be ready for a gun fight.<br>
    <br>
    I wonder if you have ever seen anyone shot, up close and personal?: It's not a nice thing, not clean and heroic like in the old westerns. It has been decades since the summer of 1967 in Austin, but I can still see the pregnant lady lying on the hot pavement in a pool of blood with a rifle bullet through her back and unborn child.&nbsp;
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-19-2012 at 11:53 AM.

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