Ok, half the second sentence has to do with ethanol operations. Can you add anything? What was the material that failed? How long exposure time? Age of the hose?Originally Posted by Awhite
Plenty of other places to discuss politics and energy policy.
I never knew Greg Poe, but Ron Fagen is a friend and a fine pilot and a good guy; apart from any issue about ethanol. And he has brought restored several great classic planes and brought them to Oshkosh for all to see.
And while there are or may be ethanol problems in aircraft engines, it's overdone to say that "in non aviation the damage is even more dramatic." Like most people, I fill up my car, an 1991 Mercedes with whatever gas is sold at the service station and I have been doing it for years. The pump usually says that ethanol is added and I have never had any problems, the car starts and seems to run just as before, as do other cars that I drive or rent a cars.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 03-15-2012 at 09:40 PM.
I have been working on a project to remove ethanol from auto fuel and have been having good luck removing it by (1) Testing for percentage of ethanol in pump gas. (2) If present, I mix in the appropriate amount of H2O (Yes - WATER) (3) Letting it combine with with the ethanol,by agitating it. (4) When it mixes and settles to the bottom of my mixing tank, I drain it off an pour it into my truck (which has E-85 capability). I then go through the process again. When it tests as having no ethanol (I haven't had to run it through the de-ethanolation process a 2nd time.) I pour it into my storage tank and run it in my antique motorcycle.
Once I get my new aircraft engine broken in I'm going to start mixing it into my aircraft fuel and plan to run it as a blend with LL-100 at a ratio of 4 to 1 [To get the lead for valve lubrication.]). Based on the fact that I check my tanks for water before use, I think it will work fine.
The removed ethanol zips through my trunk (and it's extra water filter), without a hic-up I figure I lose a little ethanol and my cost of pure gasoline for other uses (motorcycle and airplane) only increases about 5 to 10%.
Yes, it is slightly labor intensive (I'm retired and have more time than money.) but, when avgas costs over $5/gallon and my converted (ethanol free) auto fuel costs $3.75/gallon so, I save a fair bit of money.
Comments?
Smurf
Pure-Gas.org is a web site maintained by Sam Hokin, vintage BMW bike owner in Madison, WI. His bike pukes on ethanol, so he set up the Pure-Gas.org web site to help others find ethanol-free fuel. Sam is deadset against making any money off this after-hours effort, so you won't find any ads or requests for donations there. One Pure-Gas user created a nice app for iPhones, too. People like Sam have done more to help all those who can not use ethanol blends. People like Mr. Fagen, on the other hand, by funding biofuel lobbies such as Growth Energy, has done his best to adulterate our gasoline with ethanol and remove choices from the gas pump. Ironically, this forces pilots to use more leaded fuel, exacerbating the problem we already had with environmental groups.
Artificial markets such as biofuels, a creation of legislation driven by crony capitalism, eventually collapse under their own weight. Solyndra is one example; ethanol is another.
This is where this thread started. Play with your life on the highway if you wish, but please do not use this concoction in an airplane. If you must though, make sure you take no passengers, and stay away from congested areas. When your aircraft goes down in flames, make sure everyone knows you were using an experimental fuel so that the homebuilder community does not get a black eye.
Seriously, why not put effort instead to join forces with other pilots and boaters, find a fuel transporter who will haul small loads of ethanol-free fuel from a terminal (there are plenty in Texas with the correct fuel), and use this in your airplane instead. Sell it to anyone who wants it and make some money in the process. At the same time, educate your legislature on the many problems with ethanol in fuels and ask them to at least exclude premium fuel from ethanol blends. You live, after all, in a state that has politicians who do not always bend over when it comes to legislation from D.C. Remember too that the mandates that now give us E10 are actually intended to swamp our fuel with E85; there is no E10 mandate - it is an E85 mandate. There are a variety of reasons why we do not yet have E15/E30/E85 at all our stations, but that is the ultimate goal of the EPA and their friends in the biofuel industry. 'Washing' ethanol from E10 is not only dangerous, but is an admission of impotence when it comes to poor legislation. We're Americans, not sheep.
We have a focus problem (not unusual in unmoderated forums). On this thread my plan was to respect the original posting about separation, by taking the discussion that began on operations to another thread. Now we've got separation postings over here.....and we've got posters bringing in politics, production efficiencies, and so forth.
What I do like. Ken's perspectives on engine operations are interesting to discuss. We are going back and forth on ADI, Jabiru's experiences with ethanol, Brazilian use, and other topics related to operations.
Awhite and everybody else that wants to share political theory and economic theory. If you want a rant about government and business where will that take us? Sure, I can rant about energy policy, oil company reps getting in the sack with government regulators, on and on and on. I could rant either side, actually. I don't have time or the desire, and it is being done elsewhere. I'm not here for politics or energy policy. Airplanes are being flown on ethanol every day. If one cant' have an open enough mind to even discuss ethanol operations in an airplane, and we are off talking politics or how your lawnmower won't run, I got ask, is this an attempt at bullying, or is the situation so emotional for you, that ya just gotta tell us your political views or about your neighbors lawnmower that died?
end of my rant..
My next post will probably be about an interesting ADI application during WWII. Maybe more on the Jabiru situation.
Thank you.This is where this thread started. Play with your life on the highway if you wish, but please do not use this concoction in an airplane. If you must though, make sure you take no passengers, and stay away from congested areas. When your aircraft goes down in flames, make sure everyone knows you were using an experimental fuel so that the homebuilder community does not get a black eye.
That's a rant? There's way too much logic and rational thought for that to be a rant, at least according to internet standards.end of my rant..
Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.
"I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.
I have some life insurance paperwork I would like you to sign for me. My design and building project could use an infusion of large amounts of cash in the near future.
Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.
"I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.
What's your take on biodiesel? It seems to be the only alternative to jet fuel and it's not ethanol based so far as I am aware or are your comments directed solely at the gasoline side of the biofuel efforts?Artificial markets such as biofuels, a creation of legislation driven by crony capitalism, eventually collapse under their own weight.
Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.
"I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.
I do not follow bio jet fuel as closely as ethanol issues, but most recent articles on bio jet show the per gallon cost at $15-$30, which for me is a non-starter. I am not aware of any bio jet effort that was not the recipient of massive government funding, again, a non-starter.
Biofuels, especially ethanol, are intrinsically tied to politics, you can not discuss one without the other. For thousands of examples how ethanol alone has cost billions in property damage and risks our daily lives, see the comments in this poll (enter any given state): http://pure-gas.org/petition
I have nothing at all against biofuels, provided the government is not involved. It needs to stand completely on its own two feet without taxpayer support, mandates, or coercion through the enviro fear-mongers out there. Given the amazing results of fracking technology in our country in recent years, I predict a major drop in the price of oil-derived aviation fuels. I also suspect that in a few years biofuels will be seen as one of the worst of the many failed government policies of the past two administrations.
The best government is a tiny one. This goes for aviation regulations, TSA, energy policies, etc.
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