Beacon vs strobe anticollision question

[Osprey]

Ok, a question came up during today's hangar flying session. Does a GA airplane operated not-for-hire at night need a beacon? 91.205 just says:

"(2) Approved position lights.
(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made"


The airline pilots use a red beacon before engine start and strobes on the runway, but for GA we believe all you need is strobes and the beacon is optional. We did agree it's poor form to taxi around at night on the ramp with the strobes on blinding everyone, but the debate is about what's legal minimum equipment on the aircraft.


Thoughts?

[steveinindy]

Does a GA airplane operated not-for-hire at night need a beacon?

Why wouldn't you put one on there?

Personally, there's a reason why when I fly aircraft that can do it, I head for above FL180 as fast as I can and try to stay under IFR as much as possible to add an additional layer of security to avoid collisions. There's a reason why I also really want to put a TCAS I system into my design. Honestly, if I could afford it, I would put a TCAS II system in there as well.

[martymayes]

Cirrus aircraft don't have a beacon. And Cirrus pilots taxi around with the strobe lights on all the time.

[Dana]

Cirrus aircraft don't have a beacon. And Cirrus pilots taxi around with the strobe lights on all the time.

But they're Cirrus pilots...

[steveinindy]

Cirrus aircraft don't have a beacon

I don't think there are many things on the Cirrus worth emulating honestly.

And Cirrus pilots taxi around with the strobe lights on all the time.

But they're Cirrus pilots...

Bingo....and that's the nicest thing you can possibly say about them doing this sort of thing.

[Bill Greenwood]

I didn't realize that Cirrus did not have any beacon. I've also seen them start and taxi with the strobes on, even in daytime, but I just thought they were probably new to aviation and just didn't know any better. I think Diamond pilots do the same thing.

I have had a few flights is a friend's SR-22. It has got some good things,like the parachute, but some of it just seems to be done only for the sake of being different, and certianly not better like the side stick or yoke.

It seems a good plane for long distance cross country trips, he often flys out to San Diego.

I leave my rotating red beacon on all the time in my Bonanza. It not only warns anyone else that I am starting up , but by leaving it on, it should warn me if I leave the master on. The 24 volt battery in my plane is about $500 to replace, plus labor if I ruin it. I've seen a lot more plane run on 12 volts, but not Beech.

[steveinindy]

I didn't realize that Cirrus did not have any beacon. I've also seen them start and taxi with the strobes on, even in daytime, but I just thought they were probably new to aviation and just didn't know any better.

No one new to aviation has any business flying what amounts to a high-performance aircraft. That is the biggest reason for Cirrus' miserable safety record.

It has got some good things,like the parachute, but some of it just seems to be done only for the sake of being different, and certianly not better like the side stick or yoke.

It's more of a case where they didn't think the design through all the way, certainly not if they were planning on marketing it as an aircraft for low-hour pilots or for use as a trainer.

The CAPS/BRS really isn't that great of an improvement because it's useful in such a narrow set of circumstances (in-flight breakup, high-altitude spatial disorientation, mid-air collision) and the fact that a lot of pilots will try to recover an aircraft that might have best been saved by pulling the handle all the way to impact. I'm not arguing against it, just pointing out that it's not the end-all, be-all of saving your ass if you get in over your head like a lot of Cirrus pilots have been brainwashed into thinking.

[FlyingRon]

The airline pilots use a red beacon before engine start and strobes on the runway, but for GA we believe all you need is strobes and the beacon is optional. We did agree it's poor form to taxi around at night on the ramp with the strobes on blinding everyone, but the debate is about what's legal minimum equipment on the aircraft.

Rotating beacons and strobes are both approved anticollisison lights. You'll find some planes with stobing red lights on the tail rather than beacons as well. The certification requirements for anticollision lights changed several times over years and older planes are grandfathered under their original certification. My plane isn't required to have them at all and didn't come with them. I've got integrated position and strobes embedded in my tip tanks.
Frankly, I believe strobes to be superior. Most rotating beacons are too feeble to be really useful. I was considering putting a whalen red strobe in my tail as there's no visibility of the tip tank mounted strboes from the rear.

The premise by the way is wrong. There are airlines without rotating beacons at all. Anticollision lights are not necessary for taxiing, and there are explicit exemptions to turn them off when they would be problematic. In fact, such lights have been pretty much shown to be not very useful on the ground anyhow. Even airliners with all their lights (including anti collision, position, and the various logo lights) have been shown to be pretty hard to spot at night on the ground.

I burn the strobes all the time except ground ops in darkness. They come on with the transponder as I cross the hold short line at night.

If people want to argue Cirrus accident rates and/or BRS efficacy, I suggest they find another thread rather than drifting this one all over the place.

[martymayes]

"Rotating beacon" is a misnomer as not all beacons rotate. For example, the beacon used on 1000's of Cessna's is just a bulb that turns on/off, no mechanical rotation involved. Also, not all beacons are part of an anticollision light system. I fly a plane that has a red beacon on top and bottom of the fuselage, they are actually strobe lights but the switch is labeled beacon light, and the airplane flight manual specifically says the beacon lights are not to be used as anticollision lights. Same is true in the MEL, beacon and anticollision are separate systems.

[Bill Greenwood]

To "Flying Ron" , this topic was about gen av beacon vs strobe, and not about airlines.
If you want to write about airlines, why don't you do "find another thread rather than drifting this one all over the place."

Does that sound pretty rude as I write it?

It did when you thought it was your place to tell other people what to write or not on this EAA forum.