ethanol removal

[steveinindy]

but your posting raises concerns that perhaps I should not be using it at all.

Liability?

[raytoews]

Just a thought, octane rating is the resistance to exploding, or in other words sloooowww down the burn.
Wouldn't a little bit of oil do the same thing?

[nrpetersen]

Adding oil is like adding kerosene - it makes self ignition much easier. Japanese saboteurs dissolved paraffin in US avgas stores in the Pacific in WWII to wreck the octane.

[Pearson]

Very interesting thread. Why has no one tried to get an STC to use ethanol fuel in a small (low powered) airplane? If ethanol eats fuel lines, O rings, etc., why not replace those components with ethanol resistant versions and pursue an STC. If people are willing to pay $2500 for an ethanol washer, I would think they would be willing to pay for an STC that modifys their aircraft to use fuel with ethanol.

I think that it is a noble cause for the aviation community to pursue legislative action to make ethanol free fuel available at airports. But this would take many years, and possibly end in failure. If it were successful, I am sure the fuel would be very expensive. It seems to me pursuing an STC that replaces any components unsuitable for use with ethanol would be a cheaper and faster alternative.

[rosiejerryrosie]

Because ethanol does more bad things that just eat fuel lines and O rings. It attracts and holds water which can be very corrosive to metal parts. In 2-cycle engines, it acts as a cleaner and removes lubricating oil from the pistons and cylindars. It effectively reduces the amount of energy produced by a given volume of fuel (ever notice that your gas milage in your car is much less than when you were able to get unpoluted gasoline?) It increases the cost of food (corn going to produce ethanol is not available as food or to feed livestock producing your baby back ribs) and has increased the presence of malnutrition in third world countries. The subsidies paid to corn and ethanol producers has helped to increase the national debt. Should I go on?

[s-9chaospilot]

There is finally an affordable device that actually completely removes the ethanol from pump gas. I have been using it for my Rans S-9 for some time. It works as advertised. You can see it in action at www.ethanolremover.com.

[cub builder]

There is finally an affordable device that actually completely removes the ethanol from pump gas. I have been using it for my Rans S-9 for some time. It works as advertised. You can see it in action at www.ethanolremover.com.

I would suggest going back and rereading the last 4 pages of posts. The ethanol is there not only to satisfy regulation, but is used to raise the octane of the fuel feedstock to create the finished fuel. Removing the ethanol also substantially lowers the octane. While your aircraft is apparently burning it without detonation issues so far, that is no guarantee the next can as you really don't know what octane you have in your now scrubbed fuel.

-Cub Builder

[nrpetersen]

I would suggest going back and rereading the last 4 pages of posts. The ethanol is there not only to satisfy regulation, but is used to raise the octane of the fuel feedstock to create the finished fuel. Removing the ethanol also substantially lowers the octane. While your aircraft is apparently burning it without detonation issues so far, that is no guarantee the next can as you really don't know what octane you have in your now scrubbed fuel.

Yes there is definitely a substantial octane reduction, plus the fuel is now saturated with dissolved water. Assuming the octane is still adequate it would work, but the residual dissolved ethanol/water will come out of solution as the gasoline is chilled. In other words, don't use it below 32 degF. Adding a small amount of isopropyl HEET (another alcohol again but at least it isn't ethanol) will re-absorb the residual water. Actually a second water treatment and settling etc would further get rid of more of the ethanol, although the scheme probably reduces the ethanol content sufficiently that it won't wreck an aircraft fuel system.

But what fraction of the ethanol can be removed this way in one stage of mixing a liter of water with 4 gallons of E10?

I'd be willing to try it in any ground based machinery (such as a lawn mower) but not in my airplane yet. If course I have access to non-alcohol 91UL (E0).

But feel free to dump the water alcohol mix anywhere.

[raytoews]

Adding oil is like adding kerosene - it makes self ignition much easier. Japanese saboteurs dissolved paraffin in US avgas stores in the Pacific in WWII to wreck the octane.

I have to question your comment with my common knowledge. Adding kerosene or diesel fuel to gasoline does not make it easier to ignite,,,it makes it harder. Throw gas on a fire and you have an explosion, throw diesel fuel on and you have a bigger fire.

Octane is all about slowing down the burn.

A gas engine will run on diesel/kerosene. I have personal experience. During the war farmers ran their tractors on diesel, started it on gas then switched to diesel.

Back in my younger days when we couldn't always afford gas we would "occasionally" siphon gas out of a field tractor and drive on that. We always had a little can of gas along to start the old low compression chevy.

I believe paraffin would gum up the injectors or carb jets??

Just adding fuel to the fire

Ray

[FlyingRon]

It's not the Alcohol doing that, Dr.s have been using rubber stuff in conjunction with alcohol for many many years with no problems. Refineries and distributors have been using rubber seals and hoses for years to handle alcohol with no problems.

Ask your self what was put in gas to replace the TEL when it was outlawed? those 2 chemicals are what attack the rubber compounds not alcohol.

Not necessarily rubber, but alcohol isn't kind to various components in the fuel system. It just causes rubber to potentially swell. The Vanguard (the RV ethanol guys) have figured out where a lot of the problems are. Not so much of a problem with injected engines, but some of the carbs had to be reworked.