Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Tailwheel Trainers

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    14

    Tailwheel Trainers

    Hi!

    I'm planning on starting my flight lessons this spring, not long after I get my Sonex inspected. Yup, I'll have an airplane ready to fly, but won't be able to fly it. Since it's a taildragger, I plan to take all, or nearly all of my lessons in taildraggers to get my Sport Pilot ticket. I found out today that Falcon insurance would want at least 25 hours of taildragger time before insuring me in my plane, which would work out just fine. So below is my short list of airplanes, instructors, and airports.

    PA11
    This plane is owned by a father/son CFI team that operates out of their own grass strip, 20 miles north of me. They come fairly well recommended. I'll find out more later, but at one point, the plane had no electrical system. I know that's permissible, but it wouldn't allow me to get any radio training or complete my sport pilot in it. Hopefully it'll have had that added by now. Otherwise it may be good for the first few hours only.

    C150 Texas TD
    This is at the local towered airport, 7 miles away, run by a flight school. I've had a couple people recommend the CFI who would teach in this. The 150 is not an LSA, so I'd have to find one to solo and take my check ride in.

    Luscombe 8A-F
    This is at a non-towered airport 30 miles south of me. The CFI is the owner of what I think is a one-man flight school and rental service.

    Thoughts
    I'm gonna assume the Cub has a radio, otherwise it's a not a contender. With a radio in the Cub, the 150 goes to the bottom of this list, cuz I'd have to find an LSA and another CFI to finish the Sport Pilot program. And the airport is towered, so I'd think that might cut down on how fast I'd be able to run through the pattern. Especially compared to the non-towered airport to the south and grass strip to the north.

    My plan is to meet with the CFI's for the PA11 and Luscombe. As long as they aren't Yankee fans, I'll talk things over with them and maybe take an intro flight before negotiating terms.

    I'll appreciate your feedback.

    Cheers,
    Dan

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Morgantown, West Virginia, United States
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by messydeer View Post
    I'm gonna assume the Cub has a radio, otherwise it's a not a contender. With a radio in the Cub, the 150 goes to the bottom of this lis

    What about using a handheld radio?

  3. #3
    RetroAcro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Posts
    135
    Lots of non-electrical system aircraft use radios, and they are very easily added. A handheld radio mounted inside the airplane with coax cable to an external whip antennae works as well as any other setup as long as you have a shielded ignition harness. Mount an intercom in the plane so you can hear the radio through your headset and also talk to your passengers, or first, your instructor. Everything runs on batteries. If the spark plugs don't have a shielded harness, reception and transmission quality will be diminished, but it will still work. Lack of existing radio should not be a determining factor in the plane you buy.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,575
    "Radio training" is a very small part of learning to fly. What radio did Lindberg talk on when he went to Paris? You can learn what to say and hear on the radio very easily, get a av band scanner or small handheld and listen to nearby tower and pilots. Just be logical, tell whoever you call your type and N number, where you are, and what you want to do( ie taxi, land, etc.), and expect some logic in the reply. It can also help to get a short tape from King schools, etc on radio use. It is not a big deal.
    You can easily use a handheld, (Sportys sells a good one) in a Cub if there is an external antanea.

    I'd much rather learn in the Cub than any C-150, I have not flown a Luscomb. And you will be learning to actually fly , even if you can't get the Oprah show on your glass panel.By the way, the Cub can do some basic acro too, when and if you get to that point.
    The quality of the instructor is the big thing and how he treats you. Are you just a $ sign to him or does he really care if you learn to fly?

    Good luck, go do it and enjoy it.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 02-24-2012 at 12:14 PM.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    302
    One of the advantages of the Sport Pilot certificate is that no radio training is required. You will be better off to learn to fly first. Get the sport pilot certificate first then go for the radio endorsement. You will get more flight experiance, T.O. and Landings or air work, per hour at the uncontroled field. The exception would be if you expect to base your craft at a high trafic controled field. Even then that training can be accomplished after the Sport Pilot certificate and the airplane does not need to be a Light Sport. That would be a good opertunity to expand your horrizon by getting some time in the "Heavy Metal". Have fun and be safe. All your options listed are reasonable.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    26
    Why cant you use your plane you built to train in once its certified? is there some regulation against it? If not, that would be your best bet because you get to learn in what you fly, not have to re-adequate your self to your plane once you get your license.

  7. #7
    RetroAcro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Posts
    135
    Quote Originally Posted by rturiak View Post
    Why cant you use your plane you built to train in once its certified? is there some regulation against it? If not, that would be your best bet because you get to learn in what you fly, not have to re-adequate your self to your plane once you get your license.
    Perfectly fine to receive flight instruction and learn to fly in your own experimental, but the 40 hour Phase 1 time would need to be flown off before the airplane can legally carry a second occupant (CFI). You'll never convince the FAA that a Sonex requires a "crewmember". :-) Since the builder would not be qualified to fly off the Phase 1 time, he would have to find someone else willing to do it, or pay someone. 40 hrs is a good chunk of time. That's probably the biggest ostacle, but it could be done. He'd also need to find a CFI willing to work with him in the Sonex, which is a fairly uncommon airplane, even though their handling is very straightforward. Another question would be how suitable the Sonex would be for primary flight training. I can't comment much about that. But trainers tend to take some abuse, and some folks may want to get past that stage in an airplane they don't have so much sweat equity in.
    Last edited by RetroAcro; 02-24-2012 at 02:22 PM.

  8. #8
    steveinindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,449
    My advice is this
    1. Which of these has a wing loading and power loading most similar to the Sonex as you have configured it?
    2. Pick the aircraft most like your Sonex with regards to these factors (to minimize the "learning curve" once you get the OK to go back) and then still go and build some time on the others just for the experience with the various types.

    Best of luck and I hope this helps.

    What radio did Lindberg talk on when he went to Paris?
    Yeah....the fact that it was 85 or so years ago and a lot has changed not withstanding. I've never understood why so many pilots (a minority at best) still stick to the "no radio" exception to the regulations given how inexpensive and easy to use the handhelds are.

    One of the advantages of the Sport Pilot certificate is that no radio training is required. You will be better off to learn to fly first
    Honestly, who the heck is doing training in a controlled environment where you have to talk on the radio constantly? I mean, I've seen it at Class D airports but for the most part outside of the pattern work at your home field, you're out in places where you don't have to be talking on the radio regardless of whether you're a sport pilot or private pilot. That said, the problem with teaching one thing and then the other is when you get a pilot who is "no radio" and tries to go into a situation where a radio is really de facto required equipment (which is to say any moderately busy field especially if there's a tower). It goes back to one of those "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

    Most of us who have been flying for very long recount incidents where pilots were either NORDO operations or were just plain choosing not to pay attention to the frequency for whatever reason. The closest I've ever come to a mid-air collision was having a jerk in a non-radio equipped Cub who apparently wasn't paying attention and decided to cut me and my CFI off in his Piper Comanche. We had made all of our calls and yet he scooted in from below and from the opposite side of the pattern and then tried to pull up to get onto the VASI glideslope.

    According to the three witnesses, the Cub went somewhere between 100 and 200 feet below us as I pulled up and side-stepped to avoid him. I NEVER want to be that close to another aircraft in flight again because I can attest that, while I am a huge fan of the Piper series of aircraft for the most part, having one of the seat cushions where it doesn't belong due to "pucker factor" isn't so much fun.

    To make things better, the dickhead decided to try to report us to the FSDO for (and I quote) "buzzing him" while he was on final. Luckily for us, we had two things in our favor:
    1. The local FBO records the CTAF for training and safety purposes so the fact that we had followed the letter of the law to, well, the letter was without question
    2. The pilot behind us in the queue to land happened to be retired FAA employee (if memory serves, he had worked for the local FSDO that handled the case; short of having a member of the NTSB as a witness you couldn't ask for better circumstances)

    We, obviously, walked away with no punishment but did get a "nicely done" (for avoiding the collision) but the other pilot got a temporary suspension.

    If more people treated radio communications as part of flying instead of as this unfortunate add-on, we could get past this idea of it being a burden and see it for what it is: one more tool to help us maintain situational awareness because "see and avoid" is a laughable myth and a false sense of security at best. Plus we'd have fewer pilots who start sweating bullets the moment they enter controlled airspace and maybe they wouldn't be so exhibit such reticence about asking for ATC's assistance in the event of a problem. The guy who trains out for his private pilot in Podunk, Indiana (as a proud native of Podunk, I mean no insult by this) at Mudsuck International and then tries to squeak by flying into even the relatively calm airspace around Indianapolis for a Colts game or whatever is easy to spot. They tend to freeze up, stutter and stammer. It's kind of amusing to listen to but imagining that same low hour (not necessarily the same thing as "new"; there are plenty of us who have been flying for years with very few logged hours) pilot trying to go somewhere with moderate to heavy traffic (Chicago? Atlanta? Cleveland? Charlotte?) makes me as a safety researcher stop and go "Please dear G-d, let them have better judgment than that".

    The sooner we get past this "us versus them" BS between pilots and ATC (or in the case of uncontrolled fields, "real pilots don't need a radio") the sooner we start instilling in our students that Category B and C airspace shouldn't be a "no-fly zone" or that giving people some idea of where you are because amazingly enough Cub Yellow actually blends into terrain quite well given the inherent limitations of the Mark I eyeball, the sooner we prepare them for what makes flying fun: the ability to go almost anywhere. My dislike for grass strips is somewhat well known and people often remark that I'm "limiting myself" because of it. Oddly enough, these are the often same folks who will go 100 miles out of their way to avoid talking to ATC enroute or fly to a distant outlying field instead of a GA reliever airport.

    You will get more flight experiance, T.O. and Landings or air work, per hour at the uncontroled field.
    That depends largely on the traffic volume. There are a lot of towered fields (KHUF, KBMG and KMBS being the ones that jump to mind since I trained at and around these) where you pretty much have the place to yourself a large part of the time.

    The other issue is that if you do all your training at little country fields with nothing but light GA and then try to go somewhere bigger, it sets you up for a steep learning curve when you start throwing things like turboprops, business jets, etc into the mix. Gaining experience with these under the watchful eye of an instructor is always better than trying to do it on your own. That's assuming that your instructor has the experience himself. I've run into a few who don't seem to venture any further afield than mandated by the training requirements.

    It's fine if all you want to do is beat around at the local grass strip but remember that a lot of pilots these days have bigger aspirations in mind and we should try to expand our horizons as pilots not try to find ways to cut corners or impose limitations just for the sake of expediency or the comfort of those among our ranks who have a particular dislike for certain aspects of flying.

    That would be a good opertunity to expand your horrizon by getting some time in the "Heavy Metal"
    How do you define "heavy metal"?
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    151
    How do you define "heavy metal"?
    I think this pretty much covers it.....


    Name:  6138372413_7ba490e4ea.jpg
Views: 824
Size:  92.0 KB

  10. #10
    steveinindy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,449
    Ever met Bruce? He's a really nice guy. Between airplanes, fencing and music, he's pretty much an all-around badass.

    That's a thought! Hey Hal and Chad, how about Iron Maiden next year at Oshkosh? You think we could arrange to part a 757 on the North 40 so Bruce and his crew could "camp under the wing" of the plane that brought them? I'm pretty sure Boeing would sponsor it. LOL

    By the way, if this actually happens, I call dibs on a ride in the cockpit of the aforementioned 757 as a way of saying "thanks to you Steve from all of us at the EAA for suggesting such a great idea".
    Last edited by steveinindy; 04-28-2012 at 08:13 PM.
    Unfortunately in science what you believe is irrelevant.

    "I'm an old-fashioned Southern Gentleman. Which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-***** when I want to be."- Robert A. Heinlein.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •