Trafffic Problems At Oskosh

[Bill Greenwood]

jANET, I am sure there are many voluunteers working very hard, that's not the issue or facts at dispute or issue here. Would it make any difference on the procedure if my co-pilot who averaged 4 hours work, unpaid except for a shirt and lunch for 5 days this week had worn a volunteer shirt?
What Fred wrote about the procedure of giving a complete preference to large planes over singles. He alleges it is because of the wind making use of rnwy 9, and for safety. Well, as I wrote the same thing happend Mon night when they were using rnwy 27. That night after bumnping down the grass for about 45 minutes, just as I was reaching the takeoff exit, the singles in front of me pulled onto the hard surface. I was stopped so that a Citation, which was behind my place in line, could pass me and take off. Where is the safety aspect of having to breathe the diesel fumes and if I had taken off behind the jet, I'd have to fly through his wake turbulence? as it was I did not takeoff due to fouled plugs.
If you dispute what I wrote , tell me what facts that I have wrong.
I don't see an facts in your post other than trying to make it about volunteers. If you look back at what I first wrote there is nothing in there about volunteers, the word isn't even in my post.

I have attended Osh for almost 30 years, often bringing a show plane, some years two. The man that flew in with me brought two show planes this year. I have done a number of Young Eagle rides as well as presented several safety lectures. I don't feel that makes me superior to someone else, but not inferior either because I wasn't taxing a large airplane.
If that is going to be the procedure, be honest enough to write it in the Notam, and don't just hide behind a bougus claim that it had to do with rwy 9 and was for safety.
Finally, I imagine Fred is adult enough to answer for himself and consider another point of view.

[Fred Stadler]

Bill,
I have no interest in engaging in a debate, especially since we are still actively involved with handling the ground traffic at OSH. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. For others folowing this thread, I'll just mention a few facts.
-- Some aircraft are unable to taxi on grass, generally due to their weight and wheel size. Most jets fall in this category.
-- The width of KOSH taxiway Bravo, which services runway 9, is not sufficient to allow two-way traffic. This means that the taxiway can be used only in one direction. Aircraft in the other direction need to use the grass.
-- Interspersing small taxiing aircraft with jet taxiing aircraft increases the chances of damage to the smaller aircraft from jet blast, especially when the jets need to turn. That's why we try to keep all aircraft that can handle the grass away from the hard surface.
-- IFR aircraft receive a release from Milwaukee Approach. The release is only valid for a short period of time. If the release expires, further delay is involved, not only for the IFR aircraft, but also for those aircraft in line behind. That's why we make a substantial effort to get IFR aircraft to the runway near their release time.
-- The only area at KOSH where pedestrians must cross a taxiway is near the runway 9 departure point. The pedestrians are pilots and passengers with aircraft parked south of taxiway Bravo. A planned change to the taxiway alignment will correct this situation at some point in the coming years. In the meantime, it continues as a situation which we need to consider.
-- The runway 9 departure path is designed to keep departing aircraft separated from arriving aircraft. If a pilot is uncomfortable with a runway 9 departure because of the limited flight over Lake Winnebago, the pilot can use the runway 18 or 36, although that may involve more taxiing time.
-- We would prefer to use runway 27, but when the occasional east winds are strong enough, runway 9 is clearly a better alternative than having pilots take off and land with a strong tailwind.

As always, suggestions for improvement are most appreciated. Several changes have been been made as a result of input from pilots. The survey that is part of www.airventure.org/atc is a good place for recommendations.

[Barren]

Taking this thread another way, as a long time employee and volunteer at EAA, I have to comment that the changes to the road traffic flow were a mistake. Things worked pretty well for 20+ years, I haven't a clue as to why they would change the flow. We have two fully functional exits from highway 41, why don't we use them both to get traffic in and out? Funneling through one exit is not ... Um... Ideal. As a local, I can say that we are smart enough to use back roads to get to the local shops. Ten mile backups on the highway is dumb.

[Tom Steber]

I don't know what the road traffic was like say around noon, because I get there pretty early (7:30ish) everyday.
For me, there was not a lot of back up coming in or leaving each day. The only time there was a bit of back-up was on Thursday after the show's end got rained out. We didn't see any real back-up Monday after the concert or on Friday. And I thought there were a lot of people there on Friday. I was suprized just how fast I got out.

[Jack]

Been flying into Oshkosh since 1976 and SNF since the mid 80's in everything from a Cessna 140 to multi engine warbirds. It's common sense if you want a no hassle departure, you leave early morning. If you have to leave after the show you take what you can get with the only guarantee being there will be delays for whatever reason. It's an airshow. The volunteers do an excellent job, if you think you can do better, then volunteer and show them how it is supposed to be done.

As for the road traffic, I only had problems on fri, 41 was backed up southbound, rather than sit in traffic I went to the seaplane base. The rest of the week I drove straight in to the red lot. Much better than last year.

[FSMP]

The volunteers do an excellent job, if you think you can do better, then volunteer and show them how it is supposed to be done.

Correct -- The Volunteers do an excellent job, correctly doing what they are instructed to do. Anyone else volunteering would also be expected to do the same, and follow the instructions from those organizing the Volunteers.

It would seem that the issue is not with the Volunteers, ( who we all agree do an excellent job, and follow instructions), but rather with the reason for those instructions and directions that the Volunteers were given.

Geoff

[FlyingRon]

The bigger issue is getting those out of the taxiways that border the runways (either the Paved Ditch on 36 or the close in ones on 27) out of the way so that arrivals have a way to exit the runway or else you'll have real gridlock. There was one time (I think Thursday evening) that the entire ditch was full of departures (and more coming down PAPA and making the U turn at the end).