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Thread: Importing Canadien used aircraft

  1. #1

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    Importing Canadien used aircraft

    I have come across an aircraft which I may be interested in purchasing. Among the many things about the machine is that it is owned by a Canadien citizen and therefore must be brought into the U.S. for registration etc. While I am sure there must be procedures and processes to do this, I decided to ask forum members for any tips/knowledge etc., squares that need to be filled and so on. Among the things which I have thought of to date include:

    -Transfer of inspection records, licenses, changes in ratings, compliance with AD's issued by U.S. , admissibility of any STC actions on the aircraft etc. I will, of course, be asking these questions of the FAA and will ask AOPA for its' input. which reminds me, is there an office of the EAA to solicit guidance from ? What is the proper way to handle taxes pertinet to a sale across the borders ?

    Mostly, I am asking these questions here in hopes of tapping some personal experience from members who may have been down this path before.

    EDGEFLY

  2. #2

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    Assuming this is a type certificated and not a homebuilt: Make sure aircraft is eligible for import. A/C has to be deregistered in Canada, FAA requires evidence of such. Apply for n-number, register in the US, give it a fresh annual inspection, and pass a conformity check. Can then get a fresh AW certificate. If there are no paperwork/mechanical issues to bring the a/c to airworthy standards, the import process will only add ~$4k to the purchase price. The FAA has basic info on website:

    http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certific...international/
    Last edited by martymayes; 01-29-2012 at 08:29 PM.

  3. #3

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    Nice thing about Canadian aircraft is they don't really have such a thing as field approvals. Much easier to pass a conformity check when every mod was done on a STC (US STC most likely). They're maintained to almost US commercial standards and obviously have to comply with US and Canadian AD's. It's a lot easier bringing one south than sending one north.

    Unless it's in the owner-maintenance category. Then you're hooped.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post

    Unless it's in the owner-maintenance category. Then you're hooped.
    No, that just costs more, when the aircraft meets its airworthy condition IAW the US requirements, you will get a AWC.

  5. #5

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    Oh, it's possible alright. With engine, prop and primary instruments overhaul, then a conformity check from hell. New data plates too for the airframe and engine because they have an X stamped on them. There isn't a plane on the eligibility list for O-M that would be worth the expense of converting it back. Not to mention that you'd have to trailer it from Canada as O-M is not allowed in US airspace.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Oh, it's possible alright. With engine, prop and primary instruments overhaul, then a conformity check from hell. New data plates too for the airframe and engine because they have an X stamped on them. There isn't a plane on the eligibility list for O-M that would be worth the expense of converting it back. Not to mention that you'd have to trailer it from Canada as O-M is not allowed in US airspace.
    A bilateral agreement between Canada and the US says any aircraft that is legally airworthy in either country is legal to fly in both, so, you simply have the Canada owner fly it down and park it.

    But this applies,
    "Foreign aircraft may fly in the U.S. if they have an airworthiness certificate equivalent to a U.S. standard airworthiness certificate. Otherwise, they require a Special Flight Authorization (SFA) as described in 14 CFR 91.715."

    And

    http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=3CC41679FA0E88428525734F00766 768

    note the date on that (
    9/13/07
    Show me where the issuance of an AWC requires the data tag not have an "X" on it. Serial number does not change, the make and model does not change. Plus the fact that the A&P-IA must sign off an annual saying that this aircraft has been inspected and is in an airworthy condition. why wouldn't the FAA issue the certificate.
    Why would the engine/prop/instruments be required to be overhauled ?
    Last edited by Tom Downey; 01-30-2012 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #7

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    http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?...25734F00766768 says: "FAA Flight Standards aviation safety inspectors shall not issue SFAs for Canadian Owner-Maintenance category aircraft."

    The bilateral agreement doesn't cover aircraft where there is no equal category. O-M aircraft have to be placarded "SPECIAL CERTIFICATE OF AIRWORTHINESS – OWNER – MAINTENANCE THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS". Experimentals need an SFA but there are similar categories on both sides of the border. Some newer categories such a LSA's and O-M have no equals.

    This means not you or anyone else is flying an O-M plane in the US.


    To put a plane into O-M requires "Each engine, propeller and life-limited item installed on such an aircraft shall have an “X” permanently etched, engraved or stamped at the end of the model designation and serial number on the identification plate"

    This DOES change the model and the serial number. You are no longer importing a Piper PA-22, you are importing a PA-22X which is not in the FAA database. When a brand new vintage 1945 Cub can be assembled with new parts around an old data plate, a defaced data plate is worthless. But feel free to argue with Piper about wanting a new data plate with the old number when all your paperwork agrees with the defaced plate.

    Assuming we got the model and serial number straightened out, next we have traceability. Or lack thereof. This is the same as buying a plane with no logs or history in the FAA database. How can you tell if the engine, which also has a defaced data plate, is assembled with the proper, approved parts? Did the altimeter come from a wreck and the owner opened it and fixed it with a little RTV? Does the prop have some gouges that were expertly finished with bondo and paint? It's one thing for an A&P to suspect the owner might have done something, it's another for him to have documented proof an owner has messed with everything.

    Once in O-M, the logs are worthless as the entries show work completed by someone who is unauthorized according to the FAA. For an A&P/IA to sign off as airworthy, he has to be able to recreate the logs. This is impossible because he cannot trace the parts without complete disassembly and inspection.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post

    To put a plane into O-M requires "Each engine, propeller and life-limited item installed on such an aircraft shall have an “X” permanently etched, engraved or stamped at the end of the model designation and serial number on the identification plate"

    This DOES change the model and the serial number. .
    Where do you see this in the regs? or the 8130-2E ?

  9. #9

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    CAR 507.03(6)(c) Remember, putting it into O-M is a Canadian thing. It "becomes" a different model. Trucking it back over the border doesn't change it back.

    Even the Canadian owner can't change it back with out the overhauls. CAR 507.02(3)(a) Has to be done by an approved shop too - no field overhauls.

    Realistically, a helpful person at FAA can look at the regs and what happened and try to reverse the dataplate issue. Problem is, the FAA wants nothing to do with O-M planes and wish they didn't exist. As well, when was the last time anyone was helpful at the FAA?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    ... when was the last time anyone was helpful at the FAA?
    Only a few days ago. "Yesterday the FAA said that it is granting a one-time exemption to complete this year's Operation Migration flight and will work with Operation Migration to find a permanent solution for the future."
    Bill

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