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Thread: Red Tails

  1. #11
    MickYoumans's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen

    Read the "Controversy over Escort Record" section.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickYoumans View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen

    Read the "Controversy over Escort Record" section.

    Thanks Mick, very recent research conducted by educators and some corroboration by a living Airmen himself. Interesting, thanks again. As you said, still impressive.

  3. #13
    Saw it today in the first showing here. Not the best made movie. Well over a hundred digital artists and a lot less pilots.....
    Lot's of goofy stuff pilots will notice, and not the best acting or scripting. Still - a great show and fun to see so much aviation and a few real planes and a tribute to the guys that were so denigrated at the time. I understand there were some real recreations of attacking Germans fighters but missed them in all the excitement.
    Only saw Steve Hinton in the credits. Was expecting to see many familiar names.
    Weird that Lucas had to go overseas and fund it himself (?). Says a lot about Hollywood...... oh well.

  4. #14
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    I saw the trailer while watching the Nets play the Warriors. Finally, aviation movies are back! I just know that it's going to be awesome.
    Where there's no emotion, there's no motive for violence. -- Spock, "Dagger of the Mind", stardate 2715.1

  5. #15

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    I'll probably wait until it's out on Blu-Ray, watch it once through and then wind up replaying the best of the flying bits (gotta love a Big A--ed TV).

    On the "never lost a bomber" counter-claims, they reinforce the record of the squadron. When one has to dig really deep to find the exception to the rule, it speaks to a helluva record.

    On escorts abandoning bombers, it was a problem that surfaced from time to time - but for a host of reasons, including directives aimed at achieving long term air superiority as well as kill hunting. "Engage fighters attacking the bombers" can be interpreted a lot of ways by a flight commander, after all. Does it mean drive them off or decisely engage and destroy them? And what is the expectation from the squadron commander?

    "Six bombers damaged by enemy aircraft and y'all didn't shoot down a single one."
    "They made a single pass and dove away, disengaging."
    [Silence from the commander]

    Next mission the flight commander pursues and they shoot down two - but in the process lose the bombers, which are attacked later on to the loss of some of them.

    The Eighth figured out that keeping the escort with the bombers kept a second attack on the bombers by the same group of enemy, or a more prolonged first attack (German gun cam footage on un-escorted bombers show long runs on them followed by second and third passes), and changed expectations of escort flights.

    The "Red Tails" were very, very good at cohesive teamwork that lead to sticking strictly to mission parameters, which made them sought out for escort duties, regardless of the color of the pilots.
    The opinions and statements of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

  6. #16

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    Frank,
    I think you have a good grasp of some of the tactics employed. There is a "big picture" to the story that focuses on the impact of the P-51, which didn't appear in numbers until late 1944 (Nov). The idea of keeping the fighter escort close to the bombers was necessary due in large part to the lack of range of the P-38's and P-47's. General Doolittle took over the 8th Air Force about the time the P-51's came into the ETO and was a strong promoter of using them in fighter sweeps. The Bomber guys were very much opposed to that idea, but Doolittle was convinced that they could have a big impact on the German Air Force before D-Day. He was right, the P-51's were hitting the German fighters before they approached the bomber formations and as the weeks past the bomber loss rate went way down. Doolitte was switched from the Italian theater air commander to England by Hap Arnold. Essentially Arnold swapped Gen. Spatz , a bomber guy for Doolittle. So in Italy where the Red Tail flew they were expected to stay with the Bombers, and that didn't change much until Doolittles' results could no longer be ignored.

    I to will wait for the DVD on this movie.

    Joe

  7. #17
    DanChief's Avatar
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    I saw the movie last night.

    Full review here: http://flightmusings.blogspot.com/20...ie-review.html

    Brief review: Not good.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Dan McCormack
    Smoketown, PA (S37)
    N24286, 1940 Aeronca Chief 65-LA (Lycoming O-145-B2)
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    http://flightmusings.blogspot.com/

  8. #18
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    I really can't understand the negative vibe I'm getting here. I went and saw Red Tails on Saturday afternoon and loved it. Sure it wasn't perfect, but no movie ever is. The action sequences were great and I didn't think the CGI was all that bad. Sure, some of the manuvers are a little over the top, but c'mon...it's entertainment...not a documentary. I loved the actors and thought they did a good job. I liked the use of humor to break up the more solemn moments. Botttom line is that its a decent aviation movie and worth going to see in the theater. Just my opinion though.
    Dave Sterling
    1957 PA22-150/160
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  9. #19
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    Red Tails was Crap.
    Too much money to CGI and not enough money for the writers. Damn little for Historians.

    This movie did as much blashphamy to the Army Air Corps, all escort pilots, the Tuskeegee Airmen and the ETO as the movie "Pearl Harbor" did to the early war in the Pacific and Europe.

    Hollywood continues to make crap films about historical figures with the lens on the end result; not what percipitated to produce that result.

    The Grandness of the Tuskeegee Airmen wasn't in their bag of kills or even their bomber loss ratio; it was pure and simply that they were PERMITTED to ever sit in the cockpit of a P-40 or P-51 or a B-24. This film misses all of that.

    IMPO; The Tuskeegee Airmen movie with Lawarance Fishburn (sp) was mush more watchable and accurate.

    Lucasfilms MIGHT recoup some of their money on the release of "Red Tails X-box"

    This thing will be in the Wally World $5 bargin bin in a week...


    Chris
    You Tube only proves that more airplanes have crashed due to Video Camaras than any other single reason...

  10. #20
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    I saw the movie on Friday and was considering writing a review (bad review for the most part) and this morning read Dan's review. Yep he sums it up quite nicely. So for a review of Redtails see Dan's blog:

    http://flightmusings.blogspot.com/20...ie-review.html

    No point in beating a dead horse.

    Jon

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