User Fees again?

[Racegunz]

In one of the few moves I agree with from the complete blithering pithed moron that is the Mayor of Indianapolis, /G-d forsaken backwater .

That got a chuckle from me , backwater? clearly you've never lived in Louisiana LOL! I'm glad Fed-ex is doing well perhaps I can get a A/P job with them making double minimum wage someday if I really apply myself. oh and spend 35k going to Vincennes to get the creds. Pfffftt.

[steveinindy]

That got a chuckle from me , backwater? clearly you've never lived in Louisiana LOL!

For a state capital, this place is a backwater. I can't wait to get out of here.

[Mike Switzer]

For a state capital, this place is a backwater. I can't wait to get out of here.

You come from Terre Haute, and you call Indy a backwater. I find that amusing.

(What do you call Terre Haute? )

[steveinindy]

You come from Terre Haute

I was born and grew up around there. I've also lived in Missouri, DC, Maryland and Michigan.

What do you call Terre Haute?

It's a backwater as well. The only differences between Terre Haute and Indy are more crime (negative for Indy), crappier mass transit (negative for Indy), a commercially served airport (+ for Indy) and a couple of professional sports teams (negative for Indy; it brings out the annoying fans of such groups). The best that can be said for Indy is that it is not Detroit.

[Mike Switzer]

The best that can be said for Indy is that it is not Detroit.

Hey now, them's fightin words. I'm a Tigers fan. (And we just signed Prince Fielder!!!!)

[steveinindy]

Hey now, them's fightin words. I'm a Tigers fan

The Tigers were the last MLB team I liked. I was referring to the city itself. I used to work at John R. and Canfield so....

[Mike Switzer]

I know - I wouldn't want to live in Detroit either. Distant suburbs maybe, but not in town.

[RV8505]

I was born and grew up around there. I've also lived in Missouri, DC, Maryland and Michigan.



It's a backwater as well. The only differences between Terre Haute and Indy are more crime (negative for Indy), crappier mass transit (negative for Indy), a commercially served airport (+ for Indy) and a couple of professional sports teams (negative for Indy; it brings out the annoying fans of such groups). The best that can be said for Indy is that it is not Detroit.

I was there in 78 as a kid when Steve martin called it NOWHERE U.S.A. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzCKBmlO1Ds

I rmember Steve Martin said "BE SOMEBODY" and I got out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPpa5anHKfM

I'm living here in Connecticut and what I pay in property taxs monthly is what I paid in Indiana yearly.. The grass isn't always greener.

[Frank Giger]

Hey, now, leave off of Indianapolis!

Back a zillion years ago when Ft. Ben Harrison was alive and kicking so was I as a young single Soldier.

Ah, Indy. Though your stories will never be recounted for the benefit of the wife they will be fondly remembered.

Racegunz, there isn't a lot of dipping into the General Fund for airports - gas taxes really do pay for the bulk of it. It seems counter-intuitive because it's hard to believe that the standard County airport that seems deserted most of the time isn't a tax revenue (or Treasury Bill) funded money pit....until one realizes it's a national pool of cash.

The big airports fund all the little ones.

What would be very interesting to see is how much of the total cash for GA airports comes from the top four commercial air hubs of the nation - my two dollar bet is that they account for a third of all the in flow.

Living in the #2 state in the nation for frequency of tornadoes, lemme tell you that local County airport is far more than a home for playthings.

I do smile at the 100K airplane line, though. I only know one person that owns a 100K airplane, and he rents it out for training to defray the cost. Maybe that was what most of them were worth when they were new, but our airfield is populated with Cessnas that would sell for half of that based on age and use. Maybe the restored Cub on the field could fetch 100K; put me down for two guys I know.

And I make no excuses for having flying as a hobby. Nobody should. We don't cast aspersions on the guy who buys a big RV, a custom bike, a bass boat with a big truck to pull it, jet skis, golf clubs, or any number of expensive things that go with useless hobbies.

Should we close boat ramps and marinas because most people can't afford a decent fishing or skiing boat? Charge a fee to them every time they contact the weather service, Coast Guard, or Fish and Game?

Yes, I fly because I can. It's a helluva good time, and one of the most personally rewarding things I've done. I shouldn't have to make excuses for it any more than I should have to pay some extra fee just because of it above the taxes I'm already paying.

If they charge ten bucks a landing, the hour of touch and goes is extinct. That's smart, ain't it?

If they charge ten bucks to open a flight plan and another ten to close it, they won't get filed. Even better!

[Racegunz]

Okay after several minutes of searching and with noone really giving any references just parroting what AOPA or EAA says here's a breakdown from FAA.gov website it's older
Air Traffic and Certification Fees (53% of FAA's total budget)

• Jet and turboprop flights currently subject to the ticket tax—including domestic, international, passenger, cargo, charter, air taxi, and fractional operators—would pay for their use of the air traffic system via terminal and enroute service fees. The proposal sets broad parameters for how these fees would be structured and how users would be consulted as they are established.
• Collecting fees to recover the cost of air traffic services is a widely accepted practicearound the world. Fees would be based on data derived from FAA’s cost accounting and allocation systems, and would cover nearly three-fourths of the Air Traffic Organization’s budget.
• To cover equipment, personnel, and other costs directly related to managing traffic in and around these facilities, our proposal gives FAA the authority to charge a limited, cost-based congestion fee for flights that land at the nation’s most congested airports.
• FAA would charge modest fees to recover the cost of some FAA certification services since current fees are set well below the cost of providing the service. Fees would cover 10% of the Aviation Safety organization’s budget, with 90% still covered by the General Fund.

Fuel and International Passenger Taxes (28% of FAA's total budget)

• GA and piston users will pay their fair share of FAA costs through a fuel tax, their preferred mechanism. The tax rates are based on a detailed cost allocation, and would change every two years in line with an updated cost allocation study.
• All domestic commercial and GA users will also pay a common fuel tax of 13.6 cents per gallon to fund AIP, the Essential Air Service program and FAA’s Research, Engineering and Development account. International commercial passenger flights will pay a $6.39 passenger head tax to fund these services.

General Fund Contribution (19% of FAA's total budget)

• A General Fund contribution would continue to pay for public good functions such as safety regulation, military use of air traffic services, and flight service stations. The contribution would account for approximately 19 percent of the FAA’s budget.

I'll leave this up but this looks like it was a proposed change, I can't find a breakdown of how much and where the money comes from, typical gov't accounting, I'll keep diggin though. I also found a current state of the AATF (aviation/airport Trust Fund) that is where the money is pooled for FAA funding, another money game the Gov't plays. The numbers there don't add up to what I saw elsewhere.