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Thread: $6 avgas letter

  1. #31
    Jim Clark's Avatar
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    On a beautiful June evening at the National Biplane Fly In last year a group was sitting next to a biplane as the sun was going down. The conversation quieted and just as the sun set someone said, "Boys, put this one in the memory bank, you're going to need it someday when all you can do is dream of being here.". At that moment no one thought about what it cost to get there, but everyone knew it was worth it.
    Jim Clark, Chairman National Biplane Fly In, www.nationalbiplaneflyin.com. Currently flying: 1929 Waco CSO, 1939 Waco EGC-8, 1946 Piper J-3, 1955 Piper PA22/20, 1956 Beech G35, 1984 Beech A36 & 2001 Vans RV9.
    You love a lot of things if you live around them, but there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, nor any before nor any after, that is as lovely as a great airplane, and men who love them are faithful to them even though they leave them for others.
    - Ernest Hemingway

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Hyper, as for "BS artists", a few years back the news reported a major oil spill in the Gulf that had a huge impact on the fishing and tourist economy from Texas to Florida? It has nothing to do with global warming, but was envirionmentally related as for as pollution. Was that just B S or did it really happen?
    Your industry doesn't have a right to operate so carelessly that it ruins others livelhoods.
    I own and profit from some oil stock myself, but they can't get away with stuff like that with no consequences.
    And more important than the economic impact of the spill is that 10 people were killed.

    As for more drilling, there is actually a surplus of crude oil now in the U S, we are exporting some oil. are we not?
    I would caution you to not apply the standards of BP to the entire oil industry. How many ExxonMobile deep-water rigs have blown-up? How many Chevron? PhillipsConnoco?

    And lest you say "BP was simply the one that got caught" - that is like saying that because of the Colgan crash, all regional airline pilots can't recover from a stall.

    The BP spill was an interesting result of BP's safety culture, and really a result in what happens when you focus a safety culture on certain items...and those items turn out to be exactly the wrong items to focus on. There was an incredibly interesting write-up in Fortune about this some time last year. Bottom line - don't assume just because BP had this happen that it is imminent across all companies drilling. Now, is there a risk? Sure. Is that risk more than offset by the rewards? Sure. Did Obama's moratorium (stupid, ill-conceived and purely political) cause more joblessness and economic damage along the Gulf coast than the actual spill - most assuredly.

    EDIT: here is a link to the Fortune piece. It is good reading and interesting. http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...ing-to-happen/
    Last edited by Jalsup; 12-31-2011 at 11:37 AM.

  3. #33

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    Jalsup, do you work for Exxon or another oil co?
    BP may be the only one with a massive spill in the Gulf, but did not Exxon have a large spill from a tanker a few years back in Alaska? Can you blame that one on someone else?
    It is not just the likelihood of an oil spill, which fortunetly are not too often. But is is also the magnitude of the damage if the blowout/and or spill occurs.
    Once the blowout happened, BP seemed helpless, the couldn't or wouldn't stop the oil spewing out.
    As the news says just today on the internet, the moratorium on Gulf drilling has ended, premits have been issued and drilling is resumed; AND THIS TIME EVEN DEEPER, AT 2 MILES DOWN.
    Let's hope they don't make another big mistake.
    I have not read the Fortune article, but it is a big business mag and might be a little biased. I haven't read the greenpeace version of the accident either.
    It think what happened with BP is the same thing that happened with Colgan. People have human fralities, and when money is at stake, there is always pressure to cut corners, to shorten the safety procedure on the rig, or fly when tired or to employ the lower paid and lesser qualified pilot.
    A few years back there was a fatal crash of a charter jet here in Aspen. Why? Because the experienced pilots and the experienced company dispatcher could not say no to the demanding customer, and watch him take his $25,000 Amex payment to a competing company. So they said yes, sure, we can do it,and left L A for a night flight into Aspen in IMC conditions and with wind gusts and blowing snow at times making visablity almost nil. The pilots also did not divert to Rifle, with better conditions and about an hour limo or cab ride away. They could not say not to all that money. they were not first of all in the safety business, they were in the money business.
    Had they waited till the next morning, the weather was CAVU. I know, because I had my biennial flight review already scheduled, so I kept it and we flew right over the accident scene about 1/4 mile from the end of the runway.
    Last edited by Bill Greenwood; 12-31-2011 at 12:00 PM.

  4. #34
    701der's Avatar
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    Name:  Mex Mtn.jpg
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Size:  99.6 KBThe way I've dealt with the high price of fuel was to build a Zenith 701 with a Rotax 912ULS in it. It burns about 4 gallons per hour of Sam's Club premium unleaded. It's slow, like a Cub is slow, but it takes me and my wife and full fuel into some unbelieveably beautiful back country spots. My last annual cost me about $72. There's a lot to be said for building and maintaining your own.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Greenwood View Post
    Jalsup, do you work for Exxon or another oil co?
    BP may be the only one with a massive spill in the Gulf, but did not Exxon have a large spill from a tanker a few years back in Alaska? Can you blame that one on someone else?
    It is not just the likelihood of an oil spill, which fortunetly are not too often. But is is also the magnitude of the damage if the blowout/and or spill occurs.
    Once the blowout happened, BP seemed helpless, the couldn't or wouldn't stop the oil spewing out.
    As the news says just today on the internet, the moratorium on Gulf drilling has ended, premits have been issued and drilling is resumed; AND THIS TIME EVEN DEEPER, AT 2 MILES DOWN.
    Let's hope they don't make another big mistake.
    I have not read the Fortune article, but it is a big business mag and might be a little biased. I haven't read the greenpeace version of the accident either.
    It think what happened with BP is the same thing that happened with Colgan. People have human fralities, and when money is at stake, there is always pressure to cut corners, to shorten the safety procedure on the rig, or fly when tired or to employ the lower paid and lesser qualified pilot.
    A few years back there was a fatal crash of a charter jet here in Aspen. Why? Because the experienced pilots and the experienced company dispatcher could not say no to the demanding customer, and watch him take his $25,000 Amex payment to a competing company. So they said yes, sure, we can do it,and left L A for a night flight into Aspen in IMC conditions and with wind gusts and blowing snow at times making visablity almost nil. The pilots also did not divert to Rifle, with better conditions and about an hour limo or cab ride away. They could not say not to all that money. they were not first of all in the safety business, they were in the money business.
    Had they waited till the next morning, the weather was CAVU. I know, because I had my biennial flight review already scheduled, so I kept it and we flew right over the accident scene about 1/4 mile from the end of the runway.
    The Fortune article actually has a neat graph showing the Valdez accident vs other large oil spills. Also note the time elapsed between the large oil spills - that is interesting and it would seem that, at least anecdotally, the business has become much safer - kind of like the airlines.

    No, I do not work for an oil company - but I did grow up in Houston and everything in that town, be it selling hamburgers or whatever, is dependent upon the oil industry so I'm biased. As for the Fortune article, read or do not read - your choice, but I actually consider Fortune to be a highly left-leaning business magazine (as compared to say Forbes) and they are always into new-age types of things like management trends to keep employees happy, articles about silly concepts like "work/life balance" and other such nonsense - it is kind of the "Occupy" business publication in my view. The article is really critical of BP, their safety culture (or lack of one), etc. It is an entertaining article and reads like a NTSB report mixed with a thriller.

  6. #36
    steveinindy's Avatar
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    that is like saying that because of the Colgan crash, all regional airline pilots can't recover from a stall.
    Judging by Air France 447, I'd say that problem goes well beyond the regionals. Sorry, couldn't resist.

  7. #37
    Hiperbiper's Avatar
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    I DO believe this is directly related to ALL aviation (unless someone still flys sling-shot launched gliders). We need affordable AV fuel today while we work on a better solution for tomorrow. BTW; BP never acted in a "helpless manner"; they secured the rig, got the survivors off and to safety before it sank and set about finding out how bad it was and got stuff moving into the area. The true story of what really transpired can be found elsewhere so I won't go into it here.
    What I find biased is the way no one marvels at the accomplishment of robotically cementing a blown out pressure well stand in water over a mile deep in the Gulf in such a short period of time! Remember; this was the first time in 50 years of drilling this happened. 20 minutes after the blowout BP, Haliburton and others must have turned to the Emergency Handbook to the page "Blowout Preventer Failure 1 mile under the Ocean" only to find it wasn't there!

    What followed was the same "can do" spirit that has followed every challenge and disaster we have faced in the USA; we threw away the rulebook, designed new parts and systems, took counsel and assistance form our our friends (though nothing from our own Goverment this time) and found a way to solve a problem that we has never had to contend with before! What came out ot this is a new way to cope with a pipe leak under the water, new skimmers (thanks to Kevin's help) that can clean oil from seawater like never before and the fact that if a "news" crew b*itchs that there's not enough oily dead pelicans to film for their spot they WILL get their butts kicked and ridden out of town.

    We have always done the same in Aviation; when we design a machine, we assume it's perfect. From the AD notes on the Piper Cub to the Space Shuttle we find ourselves wrong. As Americans (and flyers) we fix it, vow to have learned something and go on with our pursiuts.

    Any industry from Aviation to Zoo's will have it's setbacks. The trick is to not destroy the endevor while attempting to fix it...

    No affordable fuel=NO AVAITION. At least as we know it. I have friends in Europe that have told what will happen but no one here seems to take them seriously..."This is the USA...it won't happen here" is the refrain they most often hear.

    Chris (size 13EEE Carbon Footprint. Get over it...)

    BTW 11 were killed.
    Last edited by Hiperbiper; 12-31-2011 at 08:35 PM.

  8. #38

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    Great photo !!!
    Quote Originally Posted by 701der View Post
    Name:  Mex Mtn.jpg
Views: 839
Size:  99.6 KBthe way i've dealt with the high price of fuel was to build a zenith 701 with a rotax 912uls in it. It burns about 4 gallons per hour of sam's club premium unleaded. It's slow, like a cub is slow, but it takes me and my wife and full fuel into some unbelieveably beautiful back country spots. My last annual cost me about $72. There's a lot to be said for building and maintaining your own.

  9. #39
    rosiejerryrosie's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that all the recorded and reported oil spills have been contained and there have been no lasting dire consequencs (much to the chagrin of the 'environmentalists'). Recent reports have even indicated that the tourist industry on the Gulf has rebounded, and that last year was the best they have ever had.... Oh horrors, doom and gloom... the sky is falling!!! Buy solar panels - rescue Solindra.....
    Cheers,
    Jerry

    NC22375
    65LA out of 07N Pennsylvania

  10. #40

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    Jerry, the 10 people killed in the BP disaster are still dead and that is a pretty long lasting impact to them and their families.And for them that was about at much "horrors, doom, and gloom" as a family can have.

    That is only the direct emotional impact, but there were and are economic impacts like bankrupticies that are long lasting. I strongly doubt that that fishing or tourist industry on the gulf has fully rebounded.
    How exactly do you find the BP oil spill to be "contained", I guess you could say it stayed on earth, did not go into space. It sure went over large areas of the gulf, even to Florida and even slightly inland wetland areas.

    As for "rescue Solindra"," I am pretty sure that no one was killed in that business failure, nor was there any huge impact on neighbors from an toxic spill. It is bankrupt, like many other such firms here and abroad, and like Lehman Bros. and Countywide which had nothing to do with any environmentalists.

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