Typical Fees and hidden expenses

[Kurt_3_0_1]

I have a question for those of you in the know.

I want to make sure I am basically getting a decent deal and not getting caught up spending money on things I don't really need.

Here are a few of my concerns.

My flight instructor is a gleim dealer and is really pushing this 200 dollar ground package, do I really need to spend that much on this stuff to take the airman test before I even start taking lessons? I mean it comes with a hat, seriously?

Also and I have never heard of this so please let me know if this is standard procedure or not. My instructor sells his time in blocks but basically he told me that for every hour I fly I will be paying him for 2 hours of instruction at 35 an hour. so on this 20 hours of minimum instruction that I need I will be paying for 40 hours of instruction after he has already sold me the 200 dollar package and I pass the ground school before I even show up for my first flight.

Now please don't get me wrong, if this is an industry standard or just the way its done I dont mind at all but if this is just an instructor with creative billing techniques I'm thinking I might want to continue shopping around a little.

This sounds a little shady to me since I am expected to spend 200 on the gliem package and have the ground school out of the way before I even start flying.

[Kyle Boatright]

No, you don't need the Gleim package. However, depending on your knowledge of General Aviation, it could be extremely beneficial. If you are well read on the subject, you might find that one of the $25 test prep books would be adequate to bring you up to speed for the written exam. If you don't have a good fundamental understanding, the Gleim package might be appropriate.

As far as the 2:1 ratio of instructor time versus flight time, that isn't a rule. Some instructors and students can do brain work during dual instruction. Some cannot. Some instructors don't want to because it would cut down on their hours and pay.

My instructor's philosophy was that if I needed ground training we'd do it and if not, he wasn't gonna make me sit through it just so he could increase his income. He had me purchase one study guide for the written, and after I went through that, we probably spent a couple of hours doing prep for the written test. After I passed the test, the only additional ground school we did was an hour or two of review work prior to my check ride.

In the end, I'd shop around a little more. I might talk to some of that instructor's students to see if he was hard and fast in following the guidelines he explained to you. Your instructor should sell you the products and services you need, no more and no less, and a cookie cutter approach isn't conducive to that.

[steveinindy]

Where are you out of? Someone on here might be able to point you to someone who might be a better choice as a CFI.

[Janet Davidson]

Talk to, research and visit other flight schools & instructors in your area. You are the customer, this is a buyer's market, shop around.

Are you aware that if you are a Young Eagle, you get the Sporty's ground school for free? If you are a YE, the fact that your instructor has chosen not to inform you of, or doesn't know about that option would suggest that looking elsewhere might be a good idea.

Also, be extremely careful of buying in blocks/paying up front. What guarantee do you have that you will get your money back if there is any form of dispute, such as you find you don't get on with the instructor, etc, etc?

[martymayes]

It is not industry standard. It's what works for him. You don't have to do it that way but seriously, you'll be spending money on textbooks, reference materials, plotter, E6B computer and other whatnot. I'm sure all of that is included in the "kit." I know everyone is on a budget but in the overall picture, if $200 is pretty small potatoes. Other hidden fees you might want to budget for are the knowlege testing fee, examiner fee, and medical exam fee unless you are training to be a sport pilot.

[Bill Greenwood]

Kurt, if you have good instructor, he should give you a ground talk, a brief and debrief with each flight, and you must pay for his time, just don't need to pay for the airplane time unless you are using it . BUT, It seems a little high to me to have full hour of ground for each hour of flight. Maybe the first lesson or two, but not eveyone after that. And you will be flying some of that 40 hours solo, anyway.

I woud really ask around, find out what other students thinik of this CFI. If they like him and learn well and quicklly from him, maybe he is worth it. Otherewise maybe not.
I woud not pay any big block fee in advance, unless two things: 1st, Go take the first introductory lesson and see if he is the guy for you, and 2nd, you are recieving a discount by paying for a block in advance.
Some instructors really want to help students learn, but some just see them as a source of money to be tapped.

You don't say where your are or what schools are nearby.

[wirejock]

I took a somewhat different approach. A local community college offered ground school as a night course. It was less than $200 and very thorough. At the end of the course the instructor gave a test and all who passed received a certificate to take the Faa test I used free aids such as the Sportys test questions and materials from AOPA to prep for the exam. I scored above 90 and ground was done. The flight school preferred to teach it but had no issues with my flight training as I clearly knew the material. I'm not advocating it as the best practice but it worked for me.

[uncleleon]

I have a question for those of you in the know.

I want to make sure I am basically getting a decent deal and not getting caught up spending money on things I don't really need.

Here are a few of my concerns.

My flight instructor is a gleim dealer and is really pushing this 200 dollar ground package, do I really need to spend that much on this stuff to take the airman test before I even start taking lessons? I mean it comes with a hat, seriously?

Also and I have never heard of this so please let me know if this is standard procedure or not. My instructor sells his time in blocks but basically he told me that for every hour I fly I will be paying him for 2 hours of instruction at 35 an hour. so on this 20 hours of minimum instruction that I need I will be paying for 40 hours of instruction after he has already sold me the 200 dollar package and I pass the ground school before I even show up for my first flight.

Now please don't get me wrong, if this is an industry standard or just the way its done I dont mind at all but if this is just an instructor with creative billing techniques I'm thinking I might want to continue shopping around a little.

This sounds a little shady to me since I am expected to spend 200 on the gliem package and have the ground school out of the way before I even start flying.

IMHO a good instructor will invest ground time both before a flight, to preview what you will be doing for the flight, and how to do it. Then, after the flight, he will debrief you elaborating on what you did good, the errors you made and the adjustments you should make to correct these errors. Then he will brief you on what the next lesson will cover so you can mentally prepare. He may give you an advance briefing on the next lesson.

The cabin of an airplane is a lousy place to give instruction. IMHO, only corrections and adjustment instructions should b e given at that time.

A good flight should include a review of what you did last time, and if you achieve that, he can proceed to the next lesson.

Be aware that if your instructor has led you to believe that you will get your PL with 20 hours instructions and only 40 hours total time, he is lying to you. It will probably cost you about 10,000 before you're finished. But by using the method I've described above, the costs can be minimized. You may be paying for more ground time, but the actual flight time (and, therefore eirplane rental expense) should be cut considerably.

60-75 hours is a reasonable expectation. But by using the above method, the flight time can be minimized. Of course, some people require more time. A good instructor will not try to drag out the learning time just to "bleed" the student for the maximum dollars he can squeeze from him.

My personal learning experience (many, many years ago) resulted in my belief that a 141 school, although more expensive hourly, is the best way to complete training in the minimum time and for the minimum dollars.

Uncle Leon sedit.

[blackbird]

I think a lot of the advice here is very good stuff so I'm not going to beat the dead horse. I will, however add, you may want to just pay for an hour of flight time with this instructor prior to spending any additional money. See if you like him and his style of instructing. The hour and money spent will be a worthwhile investment. It is also a loggable hour of instruction. The worst thing you can do is to commit yourself financially only to find out you don't mesh with your instructor. This is not to say he's a bad instructor, just not right for you. In the end, if he's worth his salt, he'll respect your judgment. Also, you'll be alot more relaxed knowing you can walk away if it doens't work out. If he really wants your business, he should include the pre and post flight briefing at little or no charge.One last thing, take a good look at the planes you'll be flying. They should look airworthy even to an untrained eye, not tattered and worn out. Rental equipment lives a hard life. Also, look at the schedule. Be sure the plane and instructor are going to be available during the times you'll need them.Good Luck where ever you fly. And remember, it should be fun first!