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Thread: Time to AirVenture to leave Wisconsin?

  1. #41
    melann's Avatar
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    You guys are forgetting the main purpose of Airventure. It's all about the money and the public. It hasn't been a "Fly-In" for many years.
    Mel, DAR since the Last Century, Specializing in Light-Sport and Experimental Aircraft. Certificated over 1,000 Light-Sport & Experimental aircraft.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    No need to change anything. I like HBC exactly where it is - remote and free of crowds. There is one thing: Change the flight path of those frickin' helicopters to southwest of the tower.
    I think it is funny when airplane people complain about helicopter noise, then get up in arms when residents complain about airport noise.

    The only flying machines that ever bothered me with noise are:

    1) The ReMax balloon that buzzed me about 50' high one quiet morning and fired the burner when it was right over my head (and I was unaware of its presence). I just about peed myself.

    2) The JSTARS that occasionally do pattern work at the nearby Air Force/Navy base. 1970's era turbojets are LOUD when they are 800' over your house every 10 minutes for an hour. At night. ;-)

  3. #43
    BusyLittleShop's Avatar
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    Dear EAA... you're welcome to move to California... we got Castle and Mather and McClellan open...

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  4. #44
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop View Post
    Dear EAA... you're welcome to move to California... we got Castle and McClellan open...
    Well, THAT ought to get people of a particular political bent going.... :-)

    Does highlight one feature wsquare mentioned; you'd just as soon have an airport WITHOUT scheduled airline service. Otherwise you'll be ticking off various airlines and making the FAA look closely at your safety margins.

    Though I got to say, the first time I went to AirVenture, I flew into Oshkosh on a scheduled flight.

    The west coast has a crap-ton of leftover military fields that would work. Arlington and Chehalis in Washington State, Tillamook in Oregon, etc. Tillamook even has a restored blimp hangar, and the Spruce Goose parked at another airport 35 miles away.

    Of course, they're ALL kinda far from the centroid....

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #45

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    1. The CV-19 pandemic was, in a certain sense, a massive earthquake, and we are still being impacted by the aftershocks. Or perhaps another analogy — we are flying along in a Cessna 172 enjoying the views, and unknowingly fly directly into the wake vortex of a fully loaded 747. Unfortunately, there is a possibility of more CV-19 variants that introduce more waves across the globe and US. Think back a mere 4 years, and consider what you would have thought if someone told you that AirVenture 2020 was going to be completely cancelled. Unbelievable, and yet it did happen. And at the time of cancellation, there were discussions on this forum that questioned if EAA would be able to survive the cancellation of AV2020, due to lack of revenue stream.
    2. As aviators, we all know the importance of having “alternate plans”, in the case of an unexpected event. We don’t plan on something going wrong, but we prepare for it, should something adverse occur. Suppose another variant occurs, and Wisconsin decides to lockdown large events (yes - a political decision), while other states remain open for business (also, a political decision). Is this the equivalent of flying to a destination airport, finding that it is closed due to a runway mishap, and then need to divert to an alternate? Could EAA survive another cancelled AV? Should EAA have alternate plans in place for resiliency in the face of potentially adverse conditions?
    3. One of the messages on this thread has challenged us to consider fundamental suggestions/ideas and therefore "think big", about AV. And, a very interesting analysis has been offered, that helps to understand the geographic distribution of experimental aviators. Responses have been broad and diverse. Some themes seem to be emerging, such as “people logistics” (how to move people and traffic in an efficient and comfortable manner), considerations for the air show and related issues, and even comments about sustainability of AV (ie, has it reached a critical mass), and if AV is even a “fly-in” anymore. All very interesting and valid thoughts. It is these later comments on sustainability of AV that potentially present the greatest opportunity for “big ideas" about AV. We are all passionate about aviation, and AirVenture, and this is precisely the reason that big ideas can be helpful.
    4. AirVenture is a massive event and undertaking, that occurs in the form a “pulse”. In other words, everything is quiet and serene for most of the year at Wittman field, and then all of the sudden, there is this massive event for a short period of time (peaking for about one week), and then it reverts back to the quiet and serene conditions. Perhaps what we have is a "massive pulse event” that occurs within what might be considered as a “fragile political environment”. In this case, a fragile political environment can be inferred from the somewhat chaotic events that have been occurring in Wisconsin, themselves potentially tied to the pandemic, and the reason for the original post of this thread.
    5. Within this context, the opportunity still remains for “big ideas” and fundamental improvements for AV. One idea would be for EAA to complete a “sustainability and resiliency” study for AV. What changes can be made to enhance sustainability and resiliency? Renewable/solar energy? FEWER and electric only golf carts? Major focus on alternate lower lead aviation fuels so aviators can learn more about what is happening in this area of development. Another idea would be to ‘flatten the curve” - where have we heard that concept before? What if AirVenture were to become a “rolling fly-in”? An “extended fly-in” that lasts for a month, instead of a week? And then, during the rolling fly-in, different themes are emphasized, so that people could identify the theme(s) that they prefer and schedule their time accordingly. Would this be more resilient to upsets? The huge crowd, and thus people logistics would be ameliorated. Perhaps this type of event would be more like a “fly-in”. Another idea is that perhaps EAA should consider a “back-up location” and event plan, such that a “scaled down” AV could be held in a different state, should Wisconsin decide to lockdown large events, while other states remain open. Just some thoughts. (P.S. - yes - Cali would get the political bent going, and for some reason I can't get rid of the numbers - sorry for that.)

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wsquare View Post
    [LIST=1][*]The CV-19 pandemic w...]
    Thanks for your input.

    No.

  7. #47
    Eric Page's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Arlington and Chehalis in Washington State...
    Umm... Chehalis?! Are you thinking of somewhere else? CLS has a single 5,000x140 runway and is crammed between a Walmart shopping center and a golf course.
    Eric Page
    Building Kitfox Series 5
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    Map of Landings

  8. #48
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Page View Post
    Umm... Chehalis?! Are you thinking of somewhere else? CLS has a single 5,000x140 runway and is crammed between a Walmart shopping center and a golf course.
    I think I must have been thinking of elsewhere. Probably Shelton.

    I haven't been getting out much, lately.... :-)

    Ron Wanttaja

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