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Thread: Time to AirVenture to leave Wisconsin?

  1. #31
    Dana's Avatar
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    I knew you couldn't leave it alone...

  2. #32
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    I knew you couldn't leave it alone...
    Shoot, dude... you KNOW that graphic is going to end up in one my magazine articles. You just helped me make a couple of hundred bucks.
    And no, I ain't gonna share. Name:  pilot_beer4.gif
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    Ron Wanttaja

  3. #33

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    This is an interesting conversation. I also followed up on the initial population map, and did a bit of checking on census data, and found the same result, that the population based center of the country is near Hartville, MO. Then, with awareness that Kansas has a strong aviation foundation, I slid the map to the west a bit, and started searching Kansas possibilities via Foreflight. Which happens to correlate well with the added map, tied to the concept of geometric center of homebuilt experimental aircraft, which is a brilliant analysis and adds interesting insights into the discussion. I checked the usual suspects - Topeka, Wichita, Salina. Wichita is class C and after attending Sun-N-Fun this year, the complete grounding of all aviation activity during arrival and departure of Amazon aircraft was a real buzzkill for the airshow. So, Wichita would present a challenge. There are a lot of smaller airports in the area, but seem to be just that, small and runway limited.

    Salina would seem to offer some interesting possibilities, with a really big runway (12,301 x 150), and multiple smaller runways. But the airspace is a bit complicated with nearby MOA activity and especially a Restricted area six miles to the southwest. But imagine what one could do with that size runway for an airshow - the airport was even able serve as a backup to the Lincoln, NE emergency space shuttle landing site, if the shuttle missed Lincoln for some reason.

    Topeka is an interesting thought. Near Kansas City for those that travel via commercial, lots of open space, interesting runway configuration, probably not ideal runway configuration, but may have some potential. Perhaps it would be a candidate for further study.

    Not sure about the "business friendly" conditions of Kansas, which needs to be considered for any type of enterprise, and necessarily involves political considerations. They do encourage businesses with aviation profiles to locate there, but they do have a state income tax. While Kansas did have some degree of lockdown, more than South Dakota which remained open for business, they didn't have the level of lockdown that many "blue" states and localities realized (ie, mostly open for business). Kansas City has had it's share of unrest, and difficulty in coming to grips with crime, but mostly on the Missouri side of the river (ie, downtown KCMO). While Kansas has some interesting recreational opportunities, it would be hard to compete with a destination such as the Black Hills of South Dakota.

    An interesting byproduct of exploring ideas and options, is that it can help to identify some of the shortcomings of the existing arrangements at Oshkosh, but also the many strengths of Wittman Field - especially the runway infrastructure and orientation, and associated ability to have 3 active runways at a time, while also allowing attendees to move easily between the runways, according to their preferences. But nothing is perfect, and there is always room for improvement. And there are always people that are looking for new opportunities - including opportunities to engage in business with states and locals that reflect their values and beliefs - especially as related to current social unrest and criminal justice systems. There is no permanent, change is constant, and there are many factors that a business enterprise uses to identify candidate locations for possible relocation. Exercises such as this can help a given business enterprise, such as EAA, operate in a more resilient manner, and staying nimble helps an enterprise negotiate with existing political entities, to secure the best deal possible, in terms of support for the given enterprise.

  4. #34
    rwanttaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wsquare View Post
    An interesting byproduct of exploring ideas and options, is that it can help to identify some of the shortcomings of the existing arrangements at Oshkosh, but also the many strengths of Wittman Field - especially the runway infrastructure and orientation, and associated ability to have 3 active runways at a time, while also allowing attendees to move easily between the runways, according to their preferences. But nothing is perfect, and there is always room for improvement.
    Good post, and let me leverage off the paragraph quoted above.

    What kind of fundamental improvements do folks think are needed at Airventure/Oshkosh?

    I'm not looking for little suggestions, such as better food or less-corny jokes on the trams. What change to the basic design of the event do you think would make it a better experience?

    Examples might be moving the exhibition buildings elsewhere, juggling antique/classic, ultralight, or homebuilt parking areas, changing the road systems, etc.

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #35
    Airmutt's Avatar
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    That’s easy…
    Better access to the grounds from Hwy 41
    Improved parking: EAA needs to figure out how to expedite parking. Consider the creation of a major lot near the new UL area.
    Improved traffic management in and around the grounds. That could include the modification of existing roads or construction of new roads. Consider creation of pedestrian routes to include pedestrian bridges over roads.
    Improved people moving methodology - that’s a thread to itself!
    One could argue that AV is at or is close to critical mass. The main exhibit area is just too congested. Not sure how to crack that nut. A second exhibit area to the south????
    Dave Shaw
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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post

    What kind of fundamental improvements do folks think are needed at Airventure/Oshkosh?
    Remove the general public from the flight line.
    Shorten the airshow.
    Do not have the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels.
    Eliminate the non-aviation vendors.
    All of the access / parking / people moving that Airmutt said.


    BJC

  7. #37

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    WS, Have you considered starting a new organization? Maybe the "Freedom Aviation Association"? Oh wait a minute that anacronym has already been taken........

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by BJC View Post
    Shorten the airshow.
    Do not have the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels.

    BJC
    These are the two big ones for me.

    But I'd push back on eliminating the non-aviation vendors. How else am I gonna get 5 minutes in a massage chair or an extended foot massage if we disallow those vendors? Seriously, there are always non-aviation things (Cobra replicas, for instance) that intrigue me and don't detract from the aviation stuff.

  9. #39
    Rod Schneider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJC View Post
    Remove the general public from the flight line.
    Shorten the airshow.
    Do not have the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels.
    Eliminate the non-aviation vendors.
    All of the access / parking / people moving that Airmutt said.


    BJC
    I totally agree with this!
    Rod Schneider
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  10. #40
    steve's Avatar
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    No need to change anything. I like HBC exactly where it is - remote and free of crowds. There is one thing: Change the flight path of those frickin' helicopters to southwest of the tower.

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