Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 63

Thread: Time to AirVenture to leave Wisconsin?

  1. #21
    rwanttaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,822
    Quote Originally Posted by flyrgreen View Post
    Dana's post bottom-lines the situation quite well for me-- making political stances & conversation is always a quick way to enter a seriously stinky rabbit hole, which will not end well. For that, Airventure would not hold up well, and is not their bailiwick. That said, I'm stopping short from saying it's not our problem. These people in Wisconsin are our neighbors, and they're screwing the pooch big-time. How bad does something need to get before you're concerned enough to say/do something? My observations are that usually it's after it's too late.
    Randy, the post did not say only politicians are at fault; it said they are coddling the felons, which is a also a crime. And the post was not talking about feeling unsafe at Airventure. So sorry to hear that you are "not concerned at all".
    The issue is not whether Times are hard/politicians are bad/judges are drunkards in Wisconsin/Arizona/Narnia, etc.; the issue is that discussions of these sorts are specifically prohibited by the governing rules of this forum.

    "The EAA Forums Forums are strictly for aviation related posts. Through much discussion and observation of other online forums, the decision was made to focus solely on aviation. Non-aviation discussions can be exceedingly challenging to moderate in an appropriate, open and positive way. Although non-aviation discussions can sometimes be fun, important or entertaining, they are discouraged from EAA Forums and may be removed. In particular, steer clear of politics and religion. "

    http://eaaforums.org/misc.php?do=showrules

    If you WANT to talk politics, there are literally thousands of forum pages where you can do so. We only have a couple of sites where we can talk about homebuilt airplanes, and we don't need political rancor poisoning the well.

    Ron Wanttaja

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    937
    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post

    If you WANT to talk politics, there are literally thousands of forum pages where you can do so. We only have a couple of sites where we can talk about homebuilt airplanes, and we don't need political rancor poisoning the well.

    Ron Wanttaja
    Absolutely true. I've never seen a political discussion on the internet finish in a civil place. Those discussions simply don't belong on an aviation board, because they will not advance aviation, aviators, the EAA, or any of the things we come here for.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    27
    This is only political, to the extent that people make it political. In reality, we are visiting about the location of AirVenture / EAA, which is certainly aviation related. Perhaps there was “discussion” about moving away from Rockford. Nothing is permanent, and there can be compelling reasons to consider another location. Perhaps many new opportunities. BTW, there are many states that are not putting on the kind of show that some states are, in terms of revolving door criminal system. South Dakota among many of the others seems to have some accountability. Also, no lock downs, so the show can go on for those that want to attend. Those that don’t, can stay home. Beautiful recreation area in the Black Hills. Very capable airport. Many times, change is good. Was it good for EAA to leave Rockford? What are the rational advantages and disadvantages of moving AirVenture and/or EAA?

  4. #24
    rwanttaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Wsquare View Post
    This is only political, to the extent that people make it political.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wsquare View Post
    ...many states that are not putting on the kind of show that some states are, in terms of revolving door criminal system.
    You're decrying people who make it political, yet you made it political on your very first post and continue to this one. Kinda smacks of hypocrisy, don't it?

    You're telling us that the event needs to be moved out of Oshkosh due to this supposed "revolving door criminal system." You're obviously an expert on this. So tell us, then, what the impact is on the annual EAA convention? How many thousands of people are victims of crimes due to this "revolving door criminal system" during the 7-day run of the convention?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wsquare View Post
    Was it good for EAA to leave Rockford? What are the rational advantages and disadvantages of moving AirVenture and/or EAA?
    Right back at you. So far, the only reason you've given for a shift are political ones. Leaving those aside, how would EAA and its members benefit by a shift in venue? Considering it'd probably cost EAA tens of millions of dollars to uproot and move....what's in it for the organization? What's in it for the membership?

    You might want to research *why* EAA shifted from Milwaukee to Rockford, and hence to Oshkosh. Hint: It didn't have anything to do with political theory.

    Ron Wanttaja

  5. #25
    I had to check the post date on this…could have sworn it would be 01APR….ooooof. Might as well just lock this bad boy up rn.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by Wsquare View Post
    Was it good for EAA to leave Rockford?
    Yes. Much more room for growth at Oshkosh than Rockford, even though I disapprove of the political processes that allowed the EAA grounds to grow.
    What are the rational advantages and disadvantages of moving AirVenture and/or EAA?
    One advantage would be to have a more centrally located venue. Disadvantages include the need to replicate the physical infrastructure, the relocation cost, and the need to reestablish all the human infrastructure needed.

    Aside from all that, were it up to me, I would keep it in Oshkosh, because I really like the people there.


    BJC

  7. #27
    rwanttaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,822
    Quote Originally Posted by BJC View Post
    One advantage would be to have a more centrally located venue. Disadvantages include the need to replicate the physical infrastructure, the relocation cost, and the need to reestablish all the human infrastructure needed.
    Moving to a more centralized location would be a valid reason for moving, but I'm not sure how important it is. Here's a map of US population density:
    Name:  us population density.jpg
Views: 279
Size:  100.8 KB
    Obviously, moving to South Dakota like the OP keeps harping about would be a dumb move....going opposite to where the people are. The fact that it would be a ~1500 mile flight from California vs. a ~2000 mile flight isn't that big of an advantage. Most of the people are East and South of Oshkosh, not West.

    Visually integrating the map (fancy word for eyeballing) indicates a more-central location would be Ohio, Kentucky, or Tennessee. But as BJC says, the relocation cost would be huge. States (for better or for worse...) will subsidize major companies to get them to move there, but I don't think EAA qualifies. A single one-week event a year not likely to be all that attractive.

    And, keep in mind, this is an *aviation* event. Participants are better-prepared than most to travel to a non-centralized location.

    Ron Wanttaja

  8. #28
    Dana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    885
    Not that I think moving the event is desirable or even feasible, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, the current population center of the US is Hartville, Missouri, a town of 600. East-west, it's not that different from Oshkosh, though of course it's much farther south, almost in Arkansas.

    I wonder what the population center of homebuilt aircraft owners in the US is? There must be a way to convert aircraft registration zip code in the FAA database to lat/long and find the average. Ron, you're the database expert...

  9. #29
    rwanttaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    I wonder what the population center of homebuilt aircraft owners in the US is? There must be a way to convert aircraft registration zip code in the FAA database to lat/long and find the average. Ron, you're the database expert...
    That's beyond me, but try this:
    Name:  us homebuilt map.JPG
Views: 270
Size:  73.8 KB
    Whatever the answer is, it ain't South Dakota... :-)

    Edit: The 1000+ is actually a bit misleading. Washington State has 1240 homebuilt, but Florida has 1950 and California and Texas are both around 2500.

    Ron "Mercator" Wanttaja
    Last edited by rwanttaja; 12-05-2021 at 11:54 AM.

  10. #30
    rwanttaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,822
    Quote Originally Posted by rwanttaja View Post
    Whatever the answer is, it ain't South Dakota... :-)
    OK, I found a list of the geodetic center of each state. I took the arithmetic mean of the latitude of each state and multiplied them by the number of aircraft in each state, and divided the result by the total number of homebuilts. I repeated the process on the longitudes. Someone may have a better process.

    I get 38.4 degrees north, and 97.3 degrees west. This is ~50 miles north of Wichita, Kansas.

    However, this factors in Alaska and Hawaii. If we go just to the 48 contiguous states, the mean point slides to roughly midway between Wichita and Kansas City.

    Mind you, my method is pretty crude. It doesn't, for instance, accommodate the fact that the POPULATION centers of each state differ from the geodetic centers (the West Coast states are good examples). Nor does it reflect that the Earth is a sphere. And you're STILL left with all the infrastructure costs of moving the show.

    Anybody who thinks political activism should trump fiscal responsibility should be running for the EAA Board so they can make these decisions.

    Ron "Mean Man" Wanttaja

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •