Problems Dealing with The New Firewall Forward in Fort Collins, CO?

[FlyingRon]

You missed it. They had a booth in one of the inside hangars. I just snickered as I went by.
The EAA doesn't give much of a hoot about scamsters. They allowed some scam "You won a free trip" operation to collect names under false pretenses there a few years ago. With the general decline in aviation and Airventure as a whole, the whole building will be populated with scamsters, frying pan salesman, and nutritional supplement dealers. It's going to be harder and harder to distinguish Airventure from the state fair.

[n801bh]

You missed it. They had a booth in one of the inside hangars. I just snickered as I went by.
The EAA doesn't give much of a hoot about scamsters. They allowed some scam "You won a free trip" operation to collect names under false pretenses there a few years ago. With the general decline in aviation and Airventure as a whole, the whole building will be populated with scamsters, frying pan salesman, and nutritional supplement dealers. It's going to be harder and harder to distinguish Airventure from the state fair.

Yeah... As I walked past that booth I saw they had a sucker lined up in their sights.. I proceeded to say out loud. " I hope it doesn't take a year to get your motor finished" and walked off.... The look on the salesmens face was priceless.

[D Weatherald]

Hi Bill ... yes i'm the Ct210 owner from Canada. I flew in to check on mixed messages they gave me (and no headway) in February. Cost me $4000 to get my ol' 60' 210 annual done so i could fly it... from that meeting i was furious!!! The skuz ball manager gave me his word that it would be finished and ready to pick up by March 15th... I flew in March 17th and it was just moved into the hangar, Nothing else... Stayed for 2 weeks overseeing the work being done personally. Helped with the prep and install, did the test flight with the chief AI and flew home after a difficult settling of the bill. Only good news is they seemed to have lost one of the checks for $3000 and we agreed to drop it as i was never going to write a replacement! Cancelled!!

I can personally take credit for 4 engines that they had and lost from owners that were going to be caught in the web... Hope i can help more as i wouldn't want anyone to have to go through what i've been throught. DON'T TAKE your engine there!!!

I did contact EAA directly ... they informed me that they were definitely watching this thread but couldn't get involved for leagal reasons and that i would be best served by keeping this post going. FWF had a booth in hangar D in the NW corner but they were not listed in the exibitors list (at least on the Airventure app anyway)

[D Weatherald]

Thank you!!! I wanted to do the same thing but my Girlfriend dragged me away to avoid a conflict.

[Bill Greenwood]

I think you missed my point as for as your contacting EAA. I did not expect them to get directly involved in negotiations or any settlement between you and Firewall. That is not their place, they are not a legal firm representing one side in any business dispute, even if they could know who and what to believe.

But, EAA can and I think should exert some oversight over those who display and sell at Oshkosh or Sun N Fun, etc. I tried to phone EAA before Airventure this year, but the lady in charge of vendors was always on the phone or could not be reached.

When I was at Oshkosh, I looked in the program for Firewall and did not see them listed, so I assumed they were not there this year, and didn't think much more of it.

I did finally speak to her two days ago, and she was not aware of this complaint topic on this forum , but seemed interested and receptive. I don't know if that is just the public face or if EAA really will restrict Firewall from future vendor displays.

By the way, Flying Ron, I don't think EAA "gives" someone a booth, I think they rent them. EAA can't know the validity of each firm exhibitiing, but once there are a lot of complaints they should uphold some standards.

[Kevin O'Halloran]

FWF would love to have EAA tell them they cannot have a booth !!!
They would have a lawsuit in about 2 seconds--And EAA would probably end up paying $$$$$ just to get out of the lawsuit.---unless FWF has been convicted of fraud, etc---EAA hands are pretty much tied as what they can do.
People lost millions on deposits of eclipe jets---you don't see people getting pissed at EAA over that one.
FWF days are numbered in the market place
Kevin

[D Weatherald]

I think you missed my point as for as your contacting EAA..

Yes i got your intended question.... My conversation with EAA was that they shouldn't be allowing FWF to have a booth at the show... certainly not in the main pavilions!

[D Weatherald]

Certainly they can tell anyone that they can or cannot display at their show!!! Try and put your widgets in Walmart and see what they have to say about it. They have the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit... but the all mighty buck sometimes has more power than the squeeky wheel.

And yes FWF has been taken to court many times and has been able to make "other" arrangements before the courts have had the power to shut them down. The owners of this buisness are Lawyers from Chino Calif... and they are really good at this ponzi scheme!!!

[Air.1]

I joined EAA today so I can warn others about these crooks and add my tale of woe to everyone elses. My name is Pete Onorato and my phone number is (775) 721-8803. Let me tell you how TOM LAWSON and JOSH CRITCHFIELD of The New Firewall Forward stole $3000.00 from me: The gear driven generator on my O-300 came apart and broke the ring gear and put broken teeth in the engine. My mechanic, having done business with Firewall Forward many years ago recommended them for a teardown inspection. Tom Lawson gave him a quote of $6000.00, said that he needed half up front and that they would send out a shipping crate to Carson City right away. This was July 30. He called back when the crate still hadn't arrived by August 15 and was told, "The truck broke down." That put my BS meter off the scale, so I did what I should have done in the first place- google them. Well, you know what I discovered in addition to the F rating from the BBB. I went to my bank that day to stop payment, but the check had cleared that morning. I spoke to Tom on 8/15 to cancel the job and he told me they would refund my money. A week later, 8/23, Tom told me the check would be sent out tomorrow and I should have it early next week. A week later, 8/30, Tom said he would look into it and get back to me. On 8/31, I spoke to Josh. He told me, "We're cutting the check today." On 9/2, I sent certified demand letters to both Firewall Forward and their registered agent, CR Miles. I have not had a response. I also filed a complaint with the BBB and the Colorado AG's office. My only option now is the courts, which I will pursue. I want to correct the gentleman that said these guys should be selling used cars in Las Vegas. I lived in Las Vegas. Used car dealers there have far more integrity than these lowlifes.

Update: I got a refund of $2625.00 from Firewall Forward 9/27. They kept $375 to cover the shipping of the engine crate, which is fine with me.

[FlyingRon]

I
By the way, Flying Ron, I don't think EAA "gives" someone a booth, I think they rent them. EAA can't know the validity of each firm exhibitiing, but once there are a lot of complaints they should uphold some standards.

I never said the EAA "gives" someone a booth. You're putting words in my mouth that I never said. Back when exhibit space was tighter they used to do EXACTLY that. You didn't get an inside spot unless you had a track record. Now they are so desperate to fill up the space, they'll rent to anybody without any consideration to whether they are spammers, aviation related, or anything