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Thread: Why doesnít EAA allow Fifi and other Warbirds to Charge for rides?

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHICAGORANDY View Post
    "One other thing, Doc was scheduled to be in Oshkosh this year, but due to mechanical issues (bad engine)"

    Please.... let's not start injecting facts into a good conspiracy theory - LOL
    Thanks donít really care that much but I remember in past years the warbirds seemed to be running more often outside of the air shows. I thought groups like the Collins foundation were selling rides. Just didnít see the warbirds move much this year outside of the air shows. So there could be some t Ruth to this rumor.


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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
    I have no idea- thatís why I asked this question in the first place.
    Answered here by the EAA Why doesnít EAA allow Fifi and other Warbirds to Charge for rides? (eaaforums.org)

    Please post the CAF response.


    BJC

  3. #33
    MEdwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
    Iíve reached out to both organizations now and the response back conflicts.
    So what were the conflicting responses? Exactly who did they come from? I suspect the EAA response was reply #6 in this thread from an EAA official, and the CAF response was from a ramp mechanic via a conspiracy theorist on YouTube. Am I right? If Iím wrong, great, post the responses. If you have more from either organization, contribute some FACTS.

    By the way, your comment about facts mattering was an insult to (IMO) the most fact-based contributor to this forum.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
    Itís about covering basic costs. Iím not a CAF member or affiliated with them in any way. But I understand basic business practices and I can tell you for sure theyíre not coming if theyíre under water right out of the gate.
    Wait wait wait... you've been railing on how incredibly important... even CRITICAL... that the B-29s are to preserving history, educating the kids, and all paragraphs of other jazz that you've written, and you understand the financials that could prohibit FIFI from coming to Oshkosh... and yet with all of that you aren't a member of CAF? That's just.... what?

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCostello View Post
    Wait wait wait... you've been railing on how incredibly important... even CRITICAL... that the B-29s are to preserving history, educating the kids, and all paragraphs of other jazz that you've written, and you understand the financials that could prohibit FIFI from coming to Oshkosh... and yet with all of that you aren't a member of CAF? That's just.... what?
    Since when is FIFI not allowed to charge for rides? They always have in the past! Yankee Lady B-17 was charging for rides last week during EAA through their website, and bomber rides where conducted out of Appleton as they always have been. (at least for the last 10 years that I have been paying attention to them).

  6. #36

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    Ya I agree. I said fond du lac but I guess it is Appleton I was thinking of. Donít know how EAA can stop them. I like seeing fifi do fly overs.

    I donít want to add bad info, but I do recall in past years I would see the p51s running more often. Often I would see a passenger In the back. I had assumed the passenger was a fare paying customer but maybe they were photo flights. I assumed it was a win-win. EAA has more planes and pays nothings. The airplane. Owner makes some money to keep the plane flying. And I get to buy a $10 burger and watch a p51 do itís thing. If I had to choose between letting the warbirds make money or keep the airspace open for the random 150 to land at noon on Wednesday. I would prefer seeing the warbirds flying. At the end of the day folks with a lot more money and say are better positioned to negotiate this with EAA. And at the end of the day, canít believe EAA really wants to discourage unique planes from showing up and flying


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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnathan View Post
    I don’t want to add bad info, but I do recall in past years I would see the p51s running more often. Often I would see a passenger In the back. I had assumed the passenger was a fare paying customer but maybe they were photo flights. I assumed it was a win-win. EAA has more planes and pays nothings. The airplane. Owner makes some money to keep the plane flying. And I get to buy a $10 burger and watch a p51 do it’s thing. If I had to choose between letting the warbirds make money or keep the airspace open for the random 150 to land at noon on Wednesday. I would prefer seeing the warbirds flying. At the end of the day folks with a lot more money and say are better positioned to negotiate this with EAA. And at the end of the day, can’t believe EAA really wants to discourage unique planes from showing up and flying
    Speaking of bad info :-) I've heard some rumors over the years. In the good 'ol days, airshow organizers would fill up the tanks for any warbird, as long as it was at the show. What I've heard is, due to the rise in gas prices and other hassles, many shows now only provide the fuel to fly in any displays at the show itself. In response, it seems many warbird owners are less willing to spend their own coin to fly to the events.

    Ron Wanttaja

  8. #38
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    I remember someone asking Scotty Crossfield whether he thought the new adminsitration (I think it was George W. Bush at the time) would increase the funding for those flying old military aircraft.

    He his answer was quite acerbic. "I'm tired fo fighting WWII. We could go to the moon again with the money wasted on this. Put one of each type in a museum and recycle the rest into canoes."

  9. #39

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    I recall it being made pretty clear in 2017 that FiFi and Doc on the same field would likely be a one time thing. Boeing and EAA wanted it to happen, (the two of them together for the first time) at Oshkosh.

    Both Doc and Fifi need to make money on rides and ground tours to sustain their operation. Once an event has one B-29, a second one dilutes the customer base. Since Doc was on the schedule for EAA this year, FiFi scheduled an event elsewhere. Plain and simple Doc was going to be there this year but had an engine issue which brought her tour to a halt. FiFi was already booked elsewhere.

    Also, the B-29's usually split the week with some days being ride experiences out of Appleton and some days being ground tours at Wittman. One of the past crewman told me that the ground tours at Oshkosh are hard to beat with "a constant flow of paying patrons going through the airplane without us having to fly it".

    There was a very long time where there was not a single airworthy B-29 to attend Oshkosh at all during FiFi's engine rework era. I would like to see a B-17 on the field again, it has been a long time since a B-17 was based on the grounds.

    I do not understand why so many people want to paint a pitch fork into the hands of the EAA over everything that has changed over the years with Airventure. I have been attending since 1973, it has changed a bunch. The EAA convention is a product in demand. The EAA has utilized that demand to do things for the membership that would have never been possible had they turned their backs on the companies that wanted to invest in the product. As long as there are some airplanes and people that love them, to me it is Oshkosh. The big players change over the years, but the homebuilts, vintage, and private warbirds are the core, and the real people that are involved in bringing them to Oshkosh are the essence of the event to me.
    Last edited by glider90; 08-06-2021 at 09:50 AM.

  10. #40
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    Thanks for that. The most straightforward explanation is most often the right one, without conjuring up conspiracies.
    Last edited by MEdwards; 08-06-2021 at 10:48 AM.

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