Can someone do a comparison of FreeCAD vs Alibre? Do we need a new thread, forum for alternatives to SW Student Edition?
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Can someone do a comparison of FreeCAD vs Alibre? Do we need a new thread, forum for alternatives to SW Student Edition?
Bought a new laptop and downloaded the new version of Solidworks since the Student version is no longer offered. What a disappointment! It takes 2 minutes just for the software to start. Radically different interface, files stored in the cloud only, spent about a week trying do something useful. As far as I can tell, no simulation, no CFD. Might be useful for making do-dads on a 3d printer, but totally useless for modeling any aircraft components as far as I can tell.
Looks like a classic bait and switch to me. They offer you something useful, let you use it long enough to get somewhat proficient, you build up enough work product that you don't want to give it up, and then they completely change the terms. New offering is crippled and you have to pay for it. My bet is they will add features back as they increase the cost.
I've un-installed it and requested a refund of my subscription fee. DS sent me an e-mail stating I will receive refund within 30 days.
I'm taking a look at onshape. I read an article on the DarkAero and they were using onshape. They have a free version if you make you files public.
I had a need to produce a part fast; my SW license is still valid (runs out in January) but didn't want to waste any more time trying to figure out SW.
With that, I needed a tool that would leverage my (pitifully low) understanding of SW. I certainly could read or view some online tutorials, but I wanted to get going FAST (needed to take the part on a trip...to your neck of the woods, actually (Prior Lake)).
Here's the main screen for FreeCAD:
Attachment 9023
Now *I* found this less than intuitive. All the buttons had ToolTips, of course (e.g., a small descriptor if you paused over the button). But nothing leapt out at me that would help me drawing a particular part.
I'm sure a few minutes of tutorial would have helped, but from here, it looked like the SW to FreeCAD learning curve was a bit steep.
Here's the main screen for Alibre:
Attachment 9024
Note that, for a Solidworks user, this was MUCH more familiar ground. The button icons themselves show familiar imagery; Extrude, Loft, Fillet, Chamfer, etc. They work similarly.
Even better...note the "Activate 2D Sketch" button on the upper left. This exactly corresponds to the Sketch function in SW, and opens a new set of controls:
Attachment 9025
Many familiar functions, working similarly to SW. In fact, I found it *easier* to manipulate the view of the part in Alibre vs. Solidworks.
Attachment 9026
You can left-click and hold either the axial diagram on the lower left, or the 3D box on the upper right to change your point of view.
I'm sure FreeCAD's a fine program, but I think for someone trying to transition from Solidworks, Alibre is a better option.
The downside is that it costs money... $200 standard, on sale now for $150. Pilots are notoriously cheap; they squeeze nickels so hard that Jefferson's head extrudes through the buffalo's nether regions. Yet...if you're ticked at DSS for the change in SW policy, and just want to go back to drawing, it is probably worth it.
Note that Alibre gives you a 30-day trial period, so you don't have to take a pig in a poke. Try both... my computer currently has all three installed. I'll use Alibre, but keep FreeCAD installed in case I use a file generated by someone else.
Ron Wanttaja
I'm working my way through the FreeCAD tutorials on YouTube, albeit slowly. I sure miss 'ol Siemens NX / Unigraphics with which I have 30 years experience. I tried but a home license wasn't to be had as a retiree parting gift.
I’ve been experimenting with Alibre’s 30 day trial. As Ron said, it’s very similar to Solidworks. Solidworks is a great product but they have messed up with this change. EAA should work a deal with Alibre. Regardless, I likely will buy Alibre. Lee
Just an update to my earlier post. I received the refund from DS yesterday.
Just throwing this out there, not like it will make a difference, but a huge part of why I have kept my EAA membership up to date was for Solidworks. I have been using their software professionally since ~2016 and I am a CSWP. I had been planning on continuing to use this to keep building my own designs and working towards the Expert Certification.
I have ZERO interest in using the web-based 3DExperence platform. I am not interested in using laggy cloud based programs
Michael S, I'm right behind you. Here's my 2 cents worth of bedtime reading:
I retired last year with 50+ years of professional engineering experience under my belt with CAD/CAM software including: I-Deas (later to become Unigraphics NX), Pro-E (Creo), SolidWorks, and CAD software development of in-house application specific packages for 3 large companies.
For most of my designs I prefer to perform FEA to reduce weight and verify design, so the CAD packages I use are somewhat more expensive than basic geometry generation packages. At the beginning of the millennium I acquired - at my own personal expense - SolidWorks Professional that included some of the FEA capabilities that I needed. In 2013 I decided that I only wanted (not needed) upgrades of the software - not the expensive and dubious technical support provided by DS. At that time I only used the technical support about 3-5 times per year, if at all. Since DS does not supply an "upgrades-only" service, I stopped my support subscription and made do with SW 2013 for my professional work. The EAA educational edition was great for my private projects and ideas. I willingly "paid the price" of supporting the EAA user community on this forum.
Now, with this dramatic downgraded anticlimax called 3DExperience, I feel the time has come for a change. For me personally it's a slap in the face. In addition to this "laggy cloud based program", my proprietary ideas are going to be locked on DS's cloud storage and my access to them will be dependant upon my paying an annual subscription and a commitment to using SW ad infinitum. Not for me.
IMHO mobile phones today are as powerful and as good as desktop workstations of yesteryear, and it's only a matter of time (and not too much time) before there'll be viable mobile phone CAD packages available. And nobody - absolutely nobody - is going to pay thousands of dollars for a Google Play App. This I believe is the motivation behind 3DExperience - to hold us ransome to our data and/or access to it.
Please don't misunderstand me - I'm prepared to pay for good CAD software, just like I'm prepared to pay for a good cell phone and Wikipedia. In this modern age CAD software (like a cell phone) is an essential tool for a practicing engineer. Show me the individual engineer (or any technically oriented individual for that matter) who is not prepared to pay $100 (say) per year for his/her CAD system on his/her phone for his/her personal and/or educational use. But, he/she must be able to freely share data with others and/or keep it secret from others.
3DExperience does not meet any of these criteria. IMHO FreeCAD is well on the way to doing so. I'm learning FreeCAD right now and when I start using it more productively I will gladly donate $100 or more per year for its development. It's a bit cranky from the interface point of view and it certainly doesn't have a huge user base, but it already has FEA capability as well as other "workbenches" on the way, including CFD. The very fact that it's open source means that it already has many other workbenches and the developers are open to constructive criticism and suggestions. The EAA community by its nature is not afraid to build their own airplanes, so "taking a chance" on learning and using FreeCAD should be trivial by comparison.
No "accept a favour, incur an obligation."
Jeffrey
Has anyone installed the 3dExperience version? if so, does it have the 'model based definition' module included? Also, can you save the parts created to a local drive as sldprt files?
I have been wondering the same thing. All I can find on the internet are just the canned YouTube videos for it. I would like to see some actual user reviews on this. Is it worth it or should I start looking for something else. Not real fond of the cloud storage thing. it would be nice if I could store my files local. Also I read that you can't open these files up in anything else like standard Solidworks. Anyone else heard that?
I started using CAD in 1987 with Strim 100. Last 20+ years I have used Catia V4 and V5 before retiring this year. I also made the CSWP.
DS offers also different packages to individual students, but it is difficult to say what they really offer. https://edu.3ds.com/en/backtoschool
I like how easy the FEA with assemblies is with Solidworks. It is much easier to use than Ansys, though less versatile. FreeCAD seems to lack this feature.
I have used the free Solid Edge 2D for making electric schematic drawings for the vintage aircraft we have restored. It is a very good and easy to use software for that purpose even if the free version doesn't save high quality jpegs to use in POH. https://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/plmapp/education/solid-edge/en_us/free-software/free-2d-cad
Solid Edge seems to offer free educational and community versions of their 3D CAD too. I think I will test them before 3Dexperience. https://www.plm.automation.siemens.c...ware/community
Siemens also offers a 60 day trial version of their flagship CADCAM product, NX, aka Unigraphics.
So does anyone have anything they report on the new 3dExperience for makers? Still wanting to see some reviews from actual users. What I can find out so far it no one likes it.
I use SolidWorks for our office and had a chance to speak with our VAR yesterday about the 3D Experience SolidWorks. He actually walked me thru him creating a part and saving locally. I'll have to say, the speed seemed as fast as my desktop SolidWorks. He explained that while some of the features were in the cloud, the SolidWorks desktop is installed locally with the "Premium" version found in the "3D Maker" offering. You have the option of saving to the cloud or locally during your "File Save as". You can use it on any pc as your login is stored in the cloud. He also said there are features in the Desktop SolidWorks that are not in the 3D Experience due to cost, one of them being "CAM". He said 3D Experience isn't able to handle "Add-In's" which is another reason CAM isn't available.
The major drawback for me is the ability to go between my office SolidWorks and the 3D Experience. He said I could create a part in my office software and open it in 3D Experience but once the file was saved in 3D Experience, you would not be able to open it in a commercially licensed SolidWorks so that rules out me being able to do parts for work and home on the same software. He said importing a file from 3D Experience to another cad package shouldn't be a problem. DS is just looking out for their financial stability and didn't want people buying the cheaper version and mixing seats with the full blown version. The VAR said he's been using it for roughly 2 years and he can see vast improvements.
I personally will wait a bit to renew my membership and buy the 3D Experience software. I think it has a long way to go if it ever gets there to be as user friendly as the desktop SolidWorks. The sad thing is, this will hurt EAA with new and membership renewals.
This is bad, really bad for me. I retired in 2019 after many years in product design, used many different CAD programs - Xerox Expert in the mid 80s, Pro E in the 90s, Solidworks from 2000 onwards. I found out about the 'free' S/W version from EAA and have been using it for numerous projects, but they cannot be made public or hang out on the web. Too much intellectual property at stake. I've got too many assemblies, subassemblies and parts to store in the cloud on someone's server I have no control over. Not going to happen.
I'd like to stick with S/W but now I'll have to look at Alibre or Onshape, but they have their limitations too. Over 20 years invested in S/W and now they do this. Just awful, truly awful. Goodbye S/W.
Well, I pulled the trigger on Alibre Design Expert over the weekend. I had been doing the trial version for a couple of weeks. In my day job I use Solidworks everyday doing tooling design so the EAA setup was great for me. I also do design work for myself and my own wood working projects and such. So I didn't have to learn another software package. I like Onshape but not the free public idea and can't afford the get a subscription. Not real fond of the whole cloud thing either. Alibre will do everything I need even if it is in a different way than Solidworks. It is close enough that I can manage and I own it and can save local, also I don't have to rely on an internet connection to do anything. For the power it is really affordable.
I just started using it, but fusion 360 seems to be quite nice. For the average person, it appears it will be just as intuitive as solidworks.
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Yes. I went ahead and got the one year maintenance too. The total was $1800.00. I know it is a lot but I am not tied to the cloud for any of it and don't have to worry about where or who has my files.
ripley98: I have used Fusion 360 and like it but when they cut you back to only 10 open files I kind of got turned off. That really wasn't going to hinder me but it is another of the cloud based packages and to subscribe to it was cost prohibitive for me. It has a few quirks that bothered me too but it is a nice software.
Ron you are correct. I did the trial of the Atom3d and found it to be very easy to use. Originally I was going to get the Atom3d version but after using it I decided to do a trial of the Design Expert version. I liked it so much I just went ahead and purchased the Expert. I should have made that a little more clear. If someone doesn't need all of the features of the Professional or Expert editions the Atom3d version is very nice.
Oh, not a problem. Had just paid the $150 for Atom 3D, and it took me a moment to note that you were referring to the Design Expert version. Wasn't sure if others would realize the difference.
Can you give us an idea of what the Design Expert version provides that isn't in the 3D version us commoners buy? :-)
Ron Wanttaja
Ron I'll try. There are the common things that you can find in the "compare" on the Alibre website. Expert has sheet metal and the global variable capability. I can't remember if Atom3d has BOM in the drawing or not. One of the big things for me was the hole feature. In the sketch mode I can use the hole feature and put holes in with the c'bore or counter sink and assign it a thread. Then when I do a drawing and dimension the hole it pulls in the thread, the depth and c'bore info all at once. I do a lot of stuff that has bolt patterns and stuff like that so that is handy for me. There a few more sketch features in expert that aren't in Atom3d but right off the top of my head I can't remember what they are. I am currently at work and don't have access to Alibre. I did the trial of Atom3d and liked it very much. It was just that Expert was closer to Solidworks which I use everyday at work so it seemed to kind of meet my needs a little more. It was probably overkill for what I really need but I was in a position to be able to afford it so I just went for it. If I hadn't been in the position I was in I would have purchased Atom3d with no hesitation. Not sure if that answered your question or not. Once I get home I'll get on the computer and open Alibre and see if I missed anything.
Gary
Jeffrey,
This has been my experience too. I came from FreeCAD originally (OSX/LINUX) versions and have been using it since 0.14. My EAA geek buddies/engineers convinced me to switch to SW about 6 months ago for a panel re-design. It worked, but I haven't invested the time to really get to know SW. FreeCad has worked well in other research designs, but has fallen short of some of the SW widget creation. It is improving rapidly. I use it for creating the MESH I need to drive my 3d printer and for exchanging my drawings with the "professionals." What I really like about FC is I can write a few lines of Python code to get parametric modeling/drawing of complex curved surfaces. Never did learn how to do that with SW so I brute forced the curves. But, then, I'm not a professional draftsman.
I just got through buying a Win10 PC to run SW and ran into the new version. Glad I checked here before spending even more money. I do have other uses for the PC so it's not a complete waste. I ran SW on a very fast but older MacBook PRO using Parallels, but it was a bit slow and clunky as it is a non-native Mac program so I had to use Windows Parallel, another expense. I also ran SW on a Win10 notebook which ran it modestly better, but no so much so that I would bring both the Mac and the Win on trips.
I have re-installed FC on the new workstation and it seems to work pretty well. It is not as mature as SW, but I think it has a lot of potential and I've seen a lot of improvement over the past 7 years or so. I think if given the choice of paying for the limitations of the new SW/cloud or donating an equivalent sum to the FreeCad gnu licensed version, I'll donate to the FreeCad Project. Or maybe a little more since I won't need Parallels to run FreeCad which does run on both platforms.
Does anyone think the EAA might consider setting up an alternative CAD section like they did with SW?
My license expires in January. Can I still take the CSWP?
I agree that this is incredibly unfortunate. Besides Fusion360, have you guys tried out SolidEdge? There is a Community Version (free) for Hobbyists that might help out.
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Hi Eric,
cloud and no CAM anymore - two exclusion criteria!
SolidWorks (Dassault) works in the meantime just like e.g. Fusion360 (Autodesk). We hobby designers, aircraft builders, private users are lured with a very good CAD system and super conditions. We rely on the promises and work our way into the system. Yes and suddenly the reins are tightened, substantial restrictions, no private data on the own PC (SW), extreme restrictions in CAM (F360) or no CAM at all (SW). But running costs for the general use of the CAD system.
But in return, fuzzy promises from the manufacturers or their lobbyists. I for my part have decided in any case. Away from SolidWorks, away from Fusion360. I already spend more than enough money on my machines. I also want to get something back from my hobby and not feed the CAD industry in their greedy way. Get the money from those who work professionally with CAD and earn money with it, but not from us hobby designers. I had expected more from the EAA. However, the EAA treats this topic very half-heartedly to not interested. Too bad, I would have hoped for a little more commitment.
I will now deal with FreeCAD. A free system, which can be used very professionally, runs stable and has earned the support of the community. Everything I need for my airplanes is there: Professional 3D CAD and CAM, united in a living and constantly improving system that is not tied to just one operating system.
Peter
Hi Peter,
Words cast in rock:(
To some extent I feel insulted by the situation, having spent no small effort and time supporting the EAA & hobby users of SW for nearly a decade. And in return receiving this slap in the face.
Let's change the name of this EAA forum topic from SOLIDWORKS to FREECAD.
Follow me - I'm right behind you;)
Jeffrey
Start a NEW thread on FreeCAD help....
I'm registered to have a look at the EAA Solidworks webinar shortly. Last chance before I forget about it for good. I'm not hopeful that anything substantive will change but even Fusion360 handles cloud better than this debacle.
Anyone know if the webinar will be recorded for later viewing?
Sounds like nothing changed they are just spruiking the new offer introduced in August. And carefully avoiding any questions about why we are now stuck with a cloud version that is significantly worse than what we had.
This is extremely disappointing but not unexpected. Since I retired, I have had no access to Cad software. I am a former Catia user from the Aerospace industry. I was hoping to incorporate sometime next year and was considering the $4000 purchase of the basic Solidworks system when I did. But one of the things I was mostly concerned about was all the cad companies going to subscription service eventually, probably even Catia. The concept of your license expiring and you cant even access you legacy files is really concerning. I have now had this system going for 1 year and its due to expire within a month. In that 1 year it has been very difficult making the change from Catia to Solidworks, so I'm hardly up to speed. I have never seen an actual price on Catia, but it is a far better system, much faster and less resource hungry. That kind of surprised me. But it's probably well over 2 times the price and has about 25 to 50 add on modules that don't come free. My main concern is that if I purchase the professional stand alone version of Solidworks is that also going to become a subscription only service. So the decision I have to make is do I purchase a stand alone version of Solidworks now while its still available or do I bite the bullet and try to purchase a stand alone version of Catia now if its remotely possible. Problem is Solidworks appears to be a work in progress where as Catia is fully matured and I really haven't seen any significant changes to it of the last 10 years. Catia will work on an entire jet aircraft with the same dexterity as Solidworks handles a ball point pen.
My Solidworks computer has nothing but Solidworks on it. Very rarely is it connected to the internet for security reasons. Right now I am typing this message on a computer that is sitting besides my Solidworks computer. The cloud breaks that security. It sounds like it is about to become a FreeCad or Alibre computer very shortly.
A million times I've said don't exaggerate!
FreeCad seems to have great potential - I started learning it back in August - Version 19 - and today I downloaded Version 20. Haven't looked into it yet, but it's clearly evolving rapidly, and as its name implies it's somewhat less expensive;) than both Solidworks and Catia. Also, I seriously doubt the developers will hold us hostage to our data like Solidworks.
I just received an email from Dassault Systemes with 'Subject: Feedback on cloud-based engineering software survey'. It took five minutes to fill out the Survey Monkey questionnaire with the reasons for my contempt for cloud-based CAD software. The last question was "Is there anything else you would like to tell us?", to which I replied "Actively researching non-cloud-based CAD software alternatives."
I'm not sanguine that it will make any difference to DS marketing plans, but if you receive such an invitation, please take the time to fill it out.