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Well, It's be a few years and all those pilots who were going to leave YE flight programs if not the EAA - what happened ?? Did we see a huge loss in pilots and volunteer staff? Are the flight numbers down?
There were thousands of comments and some serious heartburn at the time.......
They did backtrack on some of the great security holes for pilots in the system (I don't know who at the EAA got the kickback from the corrupt background check firm they used, but they should be fired for that selection).
What is that story all about?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRon
I remember this issue very well and the overwhelming criticism and backlash from members it created. I remember that numerous details of this very unpopular program were changed because when initially launched by EAA it was so poorly executed and thought out to the point that YE could be destroyed. I remember that not enough was changed so much angst, anger and expressions of future non-participation were loudly communicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRon
I remember the background check company being totally inept, careless, unprofessional and reckless but I don't remember charges of corruption. Ron, please tweek my memory, thanks.
You had to take a course. Fine.
They wanted you to submit your personal information for a background check. Alas, there were all sorts of red flags that came up. First, the site you were redirected to was NOT the one who was advertised as doing the background check by the EAA.
Second, the site you ended up on, had forged SSL certificates. Damned if I was going to type even my name into such a security hole. And the EAA stonewalled questions about the whole thing. Left a lot of people a bit upset.
Okay, I'm not wanting to rehash the event - it had issues. I just want to know if it really did kill the numbers or was it a bad few weeks and in the new season people moved on with the program. I just spoke with Kyle at the CCA show - helping to man the EAA Trailer. ( BTW - a great resource ). He did not have numbers.....
All I know is what I have personally observed. Our chapter's YE activity does not seem to have been impacted at all. Many of us didn't like the new requirements, and I didn't do the background check until they fixed some of the more ridiculous aspects. I don't know for sure, but it doesn't seem like we lost any pilots... or if we did, others took their place. I too think the whole thing was grievously mishandled from the start, but eventually they made it at least enough less ridiculous to chase everyone off.
Yeah, I should have pointed out that after the idiotic rollout, the program seems to work. The correction of the background check problem and the "clarification" that the "escort" requirement didn't apply inside the aircraft pretty much made it just a little piece of busy work. Not anywhere near as bad as what the Boy Scouts want you to do (though we told the Scouts we weren't going to do what they asked and they came anyhow).
When the Young Eagles program began years ago I was friends with Steve Buss and I flew a number of kids, one at a time at Oshkosh and other local ones. I really enjoyed it and they seemed t0. There was friction between the head of the Erie based chapter and othere EAA people. One year at 12 noon with a dozen kids waiting in line to fly, the chapter president closed down the table, stood up and left. A couple of us finished those waitng to fly. This one guy scheduled an event at Erie to compete with us, same day ,next year. I think he moved away, hope so.
Ideest the idea that Ive become a pervert lately, but the kids are more important so this year I wentt the tent a filled out the form on line. I recall one question was pareticularly insulting, but I did it. They said they would contact me but I havent heard yet. Id love to interogate those behind this red tape. but its not the kids fault and EAA claims there have been some incidents, which I doubt. We did flights for our kid school classes as well as my sons scount troop never had an red tape., and every parent signed our homemade permission letter. Only one kid did not go and that was because he was afraid not his parents.
Your scout troup ignored the BSA guideance. They wanted to see my insurance, certificates, aircraft logs, etc... I told them, no. I wasn't really inclined to tell them I had more than 250 hours, but I figured that was innocuous enough. Of course the pedophilic bureaucrats at the BSA haven't heard about basic med yet either.
I did get a letter from Steve Buss thanking me for not killing any young eagles.
We flew both the school classmates as well as the scouts as a private event, we invited the kids but not through officail scout channels and told them it was not offically scouts. This was years ago and no one was red tape prone. I did do one flight for a teen age son of a friend as an official Boy Scout flight so he could get his aviation badge for Eagle Scout in my T-34, again with no extra paperwork.
We take the same approach with Scouts: We won't deal with their red tape for official events, but we're happy to fly them as individuals. Actually, we can't deal with their paperwork because I don't know who's flying until maybe an hour into the event. One of our chapter members is a scout master and arranges occasional merit badge events. He has the parents sign a waiver that acknowledges that the flight is not a Boy Scouts event, but an EAA Young Eagles event. Seems to work fine and no one has complained.
Re the original question: Far as I can tell we didn't lose any pilots because of the YPP thing.
- Andy
We lost 4 pilots and planes at our airport due to it.
I haven't heard anything from EAA since I filled out the Young Eagles forms at the Blue Barn at Airventure, so I phoned them today and Michelle said the reason is that there is no record of a background check being done. I filled out what ever paper or computer answer that the volunteer at the counter told me to do. Anyway she said the person who was in charge of this is not with EAA anymore, so she'd have to check into the paperwork and let me know what the status is. I am not good with computers, and was disgusted with some of the questions , so maybe I didn't do the application right. Like most of us, I think all this is unecesary way overdone, but must admit that the news is full of cases these days where teachers, clergy, or coaches molest children.
I will not comply with the EAA's background checks, so no longer fly YE. The chapter I was formerly associated with lost half of their YE pilots and now attempts to put together one event per year vs the four annual events we used to do. They are no longer able to fly all the kids that want to fly, so now the kids have to make reservations and fly by appointment only. But it is much more organized with fewer planes and the number of kids restricted. Too bad for the kids, but it's what the national management team wanted.
-Cub Builder
No it isn't. You're free to express your opinions on the program, but let's not put words in other people's mouths.Quote:
Originally Posted by cub builder
I have no illusions about the "Youth Protection Policy". In actuality it's an EAA Protection and Cost Reduction Policy. EAA is assuming the liability risk for the Young Eagles rallies and other chapter activities, both by providing liability coverage for pilots and the chapters, and just by being the responsible party with the deepest pockets. (You may disagree with the latter, but unfortunately that's how our legal system works.) Personally, I appreciate the insurance. I have liability insurance for my own flying, but as a chapter officer I could be personally on the hook if someone else in the chapter screws up. My own umbrella liability coverage won't cover that.
EAA's insurance costs money, and exercising "due diligence" (the YPP training and background check) minimizes that cost. That leaves more money from our EAA dues for all the other good stuff EAA does. Compare EAA's Young Eagles pilot requirements to those of other organizations and programs (like Boy Scouts or Angel Flight), and they're remarkably liberal. No minimum hours. No instrument rating. Experimental aircraft - no problem. BasicMed - no problem.
The old "trust me, I'm a good guy" approach works for small groups of people who know each other. Not so much for a world-wide program in an organization with several hundred thousand members.
- Andy
I filled out the form at Airventure and had not received anything from EAA since. The first time I phoned the lady was very nice, but said for some reason no background check had been done. That was 3 weeks ago so I phoned again and the man said the background check had been completed and was clean. Strangely he didn't really seem receptive to my call, didn't seem to understand why I wanted to fly Young Eagles and asked me if I was holding " a rally". I said I just wanted to be able to fly them if there was an event as I heard pilots flying them at Centennial on Sunday. I asked if EAA would send me a card or a paper that said I had completed the checkout, but he said there was no paperwork for me and that the coordinator of any chapter holding an event would have my name on his list. Maybe so, but I got the feeling that something else was going on more than what he was saying, maybe it was lunch time and he wanted to get out of the office, I didn't ask his name.
Anyway for a small amount of hassle I can now fly kids just as I did for 20 years without the red tape.
Sounds like something got dropped on the floor. Usually, you do the training and request the background check, and 3 days later you get an email with your YPP certificate. (I'm not aware of any paper option other than printing it yourself. Chapter leaders would only see your YPP status if they do a lookup of your name and EAA number on the YPP web site.) It could be that they manually resubmitted the background check and the request didn't have your email address attached.
- Andy